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Posts tagged ‘jestyn’

It ain’t over until it’s over.

Put that saying down to Yogi Berra, yank baseball player, the same bloke who was responsible for “It’s like deja-vu all over again”

Well, the Carl Webb Mystery is far from over, never mind what people are saying, we still don’t know all the whys and wherefores. All we know is who he was. The whys are still orphans.

For instance – Jessica Harkness – she knew enough about Alf Boxall to suggest she’d done a fair bit of homework on him by the time Detective Canney rolled up to her front door to ask why her phone number was connected to Carl Webb whose body was found just a couple of hundred yards away from her home six months previously. Carried there in fact. Laid out. Stripped of ID. Not a penny in his pocket. A secret message hidden in a secret pocket. Sounds like something out of a Hollywood post-war thriller.

Then, in the company of three detectives and Paul Lawson she all but lost it when viewing his bust, but not too much as she gave the same one word answer to all their questions.

No. No. NO.

This lady had a secret buried so deep a roomful of experienced detectives couldn’t shake it out of her.

Same with Gerry Feltus when he interviewed her years later, same silence. The lady was stone. And for what? An out of work instrument maker over from Melbourne who repaired his clothing with industrial strength thread and carried a collection of paraphenalia that could open locked doors and start cars?

Then, getting back to Boxall, how come Jessica was able to give the police the whole boxful on him, as in where he worked, drank and lived when he told his interviewer (Littlemore) he never even knew what her last name was? And after looking at the video of that interview a hundred times the more I’m convinced Boxall didn’t even remember meeting her in the first place.

You want more?

Stuart Littlemore, Charles Wooley and Gerry Feltus all had the opportunity to ask if Jessica Harkness was also know as Jestyn. Wooley interviewed her daughter, Kate, Littlemore interviewed Boxall and Feltus spent an hour with the lady herself  .. and none of them asked the question. Now you’ve got everybody from Derek Abbott to Gordon Cramer referring to her as such. Jestyn this and Jestyn that like they have some inside information we don’t.

Meet the researcher who believes he's solved the 70-year-old mystery of 'Somerton Man' | The Independent

You’re nowhere near the end of it Professor.

Come to think of it, when the NSW police first rousted Boxall and he showed them the Jestyn Rubaiyat do you think they might have asked him the Jestyn question, or at least passed the information onto SAPOL so they could ‘continue with their local enquiries.’

No.

Never happened.

Where did he die? How did he die? Who was with him when he died? Who carried him from where he died to where he was found? Whose Rubaiyat was found in Freeman’s car? Who knew what Tamam Shud meant and why did they hide the slip of paper it was written on in his fob pocket? And finally, what influenced Jessica to keep silent all the way to her grave.

An out of work instrument maker over from Melbourne who repaired his clothing with industrial strength thread and carried a collection of paraphenalia that could open locked doors and start cars?

 

Yogi Berra was on the money.

Yogi Berra, Dead at 90: Remembering the Yankees Hero, Icon, and Wordsm | Vanity Fair

It ain’t over until its over.

 

 

 

Meet Estyn D Jones of Henley Beach

PeteBowes: There was a man called Estyn Dick Jones living in Henley Beach at the time. There are plenty of reports about him on newspapers (Trove) and the National Archives of Australia. He was bankrupt by 1939, in the courts, see case Yerkey V Jones, it’s a classical case of the ‘wives special equity’, he enlisted in 1941 (2/27th Infantry Battalion) and ended up in a Court Martial by 1946, after being dispatched on the SS Stirling Castle ship to an Australian Mission in Berlin, Germany. Pat.

My theory is that the SM was looking for Estyn (hence the Henley Beach ticket) and that the signature on the Rubaiyat is J Estyn for Jones, Estyn. Maybe the book was a gift from other person (even Jessica Thompson or Boxall), but the SM (aka Carl Webb) was going to see Estyn, maybe because he had business with him (and Jessica or her husband) or was something related to his dead brother Roy Webb (2/29th Infantry Battalion), maybe Estyn knew Roy, or many other possibilities. Pat.

https://vwma.org.au/explore/people/602522

I received the above comments from Pat yesterday and without a second thought flipped over to Cipher Mysteries and copied every comment relevant to Estyn I could find. I’m reasonably sure Dome won’t mind, besides, he’s busy on other matters.

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Estyn D. Jones was married to Florence May (they are widely mentioned in newspapers, their court case has been mentioned in law studies ever since). I can’t find any marriage records in Australia, so maybe they were already married when they left Wales (he was born in Mold, Flintshire) or elsewhere. Pat.

https://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/SearchNRetrieve/Interface/ListingReports/ItemsListing.aspx

There was a man called Estyn Dick Jones living in Henley Beach at the time. There are plenty of reports about him on newspapers (Trove) and the National Archives of Australia. He was bankrupt by 1939, in the courts, see case Yerkey V Jones, it’s a classical case of the ‘wives special equity’, he enlisted in 1941 (2/27th Infantry Battalion) and ended up in a Court Martial by 1946, after being dispatched on the SS Stirling Castle ship to an Australian Mission in Berlin, Germany. Katie-Dee

Could Estyn Dick Jones be the real owner of the book? Maybe he knew Roy Webb from the Infantry Battalion? Pat.

Jones, ESTYN Dick
Service Number: SX6688
Enlisted: 24 June 1940
Last Rank: Corporal
Last Unit: 2nd/27th Infantry Battalion
Born: Mold, England, 11 July 1907
Home Town: Henley Beach , City of Charles Sturt / Henley and Grange, South Australia
Schooling: Not yet discovered
Occupation: Not yet discovered
Died: 28 February 1970, aged 62 years, cause of death not yet discovered, place of death not yet discovered
Cemetery: Not yet discovered
Memorials: Adelaide Pulteney Grammar School WW1 & WW2 Honour Board, Henley Beach Council WW2 Honour Roll and Addendum

Estyn was a founding member of the North Glenelg Sub Branch of the RSL and served as Senior Vice President 1956. Pat.

Now, don’t both those capital E’s^ look interesting ……

THE IMPORTANCE OF THE TRAIN TICKET TO HENLEY BEACH | The Somerton Man

Found in Webb’s pocket

Several years ago, Ms. Egan had her DNA analyzed …

Several years ago, Ms. Egan had her DNA analyzed, and links were found to people in the United States (including relatives of Thomas Jefferson). More recently, links were also found to the grandparents of the man that Jo Thomson eventually married.” (Prosper Thomson)

NYT 21 May 2021.

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We almost know these words by heart, particularly those in the Abbott family who might be wishing it all went away. Nevertheless, given the years the Professor and his wife Rachel have spent publicly declaring she and their children may be related to the Somerton Man it’s only natural that we continue his quest, though in a completely different direction now that Dr. Colleen Fitzpatrick has upset the Abbott applecart.

Rachel and Derek at the gravesite.

Jessica (Jo) Harkness became pregnant in late 1946. She was also known to be in Mentone and staying at her parent’s home in October 1946, whether for a visit or something more permanent isn’t known so it’s conceivable she fell pregnant whilst there and not prior to leaving Sydney.

Prosper Thomson moved from Blacktown in NSW to Melbourne in 1936 where he lived in Mentone with his wife Queenie. Within weeks of Jessica finding she was pregnant, Thomson left his wife and accompanied her to Adelaide where they both settled as man and wife with Jessica passing herself off as a Thomson and where she gave birth to a son, Robin, future father of Rachel, the lady whose DNA links were ‘found to the grandparents of the man Jo Thomson eventually married.

A man doesn’t have to be Einstein.

 

Detective Sergeant Lionel Leane –

An in depth look at his performance

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Police Constable John Moss –

An in depth look at his character.

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The Tamam Shud Do It Yourself Test

Take a piece of paper and cut it so it's the same size as the Tamam Shud slip.

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What we know about the Somerton Man, the Thomsons, the Egans and their DNA

“I was an accidental conception." Rachel Egan.

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The Disposition of Evidence in the Somerton Man Case.

Who had it and for how long.

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Jessica’s daughter said the Somerton Man investigation was subject to an authority higher than the police.

So who was their man on the ground?

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I AM ASTOUNDED !!!!!!!!

Said Dwyer about Cowan ..

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The Somerton Man committed suicide you say?

Mr Nobody.

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Has Rachel Egan’s DNA finally ended Derek Abbott’s involvement in the Somerton Man Mystery?

Is Derek Abbott’s belief that his wife and their children are related to the man at the centre of one of the world's most intriguing mysteries dashed?

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The ‘Other’ Phone Number.

The missing link.

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Cleland delayed nine years before closing down the inquest .. what was he waiting for?

“I am required to find, if I can, who the deceased was and how when and where he died. I will, I fear be unable to answer these questions unless further evidence is obtained.’ Coroner Cleland.

‘Unless further evidence is obtained.’

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Evidence obtained subsequent to the adjournment …


(1)
 A Rubaiyat matching the Tamam Shud slip was obtained.

(2) The identity of the finder of the Rubaiyat was obtained.

(3) The circumstances surrounding the finding of the Rubaiyat were obtained.

(4) A code written on the back of the Rubaiyat was obtained.

(5) A phone number written on the back of the Rubaiyat was obtained.

(6) The identity of the phone’s subscriber was obtained.

(7) An interview with the phone subscriber was obtained.

(8) Evidence of a relationship between the Somerton Man and the subscriber was obtained.

It’s been put forward here in multiple posts that the actual existence of the coded Rubaiyat is questionable, given that there is no evidence that photographs of any part of the book are known to exist and Detective Brown, one of the leading Detectives in the case admitted that his superior at the time, Detective Sergeant Leane, lost the book in his filing system.

How and when Leane managed to lose the Rubiayat yet retain the much smaller Tamam Shud slip has never been satisfactorily explained. Neither has it been explained why Leane didn’t request that Cleland subpoena the individual who claimed to have found the Rubaiyat or why Leane didn’t submit the book itself as both were the further evidence Cleland was waiting for, seeing it was a requirement for him to do so and the inquest was adjourned specifically to await such further evidence.

Police cannot usurp a coroner’s function.

So …

it’s back to the oft-repeated assertion, here at least, that the Rubaiyat cannot be proved to have ever existed and everything connected to both it and the Tamam Shud slip’s finding was a construction built to hide the identity of the Somerton Man and his relationship with Jessica Harkness.

All SAPOL had to do was wait Cleland out and for him to keep his judicial head down.

The Somerton Man inquest was closed for lack of new evidence despite the police having found more than enough.

Why was the coroner’s court denied the opportunity to subpoena new witnesses?

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The only thing that really bugged Derek Abbott about the Somerton Man Case was the absence of a spare pair of socks in his suitcase ..

Well, I can improve on that ..

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The Somerton Man’s suitcase and its forgotten fingerprints

The suitcase held a cornucopia of identifiable items fingerprint-wise but DS Leane preferred to adopt a different approach in his efforts to identify who owned it and instead took a few bits and pieces back to the station to be photographed and distributed to the press, hoping their publication would do the job for him.
How does that make sense?

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The Somerton Man Case .. an uncommon timeline.

The Somerton Man Case appeared to be nothing more than the unexplained death of an unknown man found on a beach near the small coastal town of Glenelg in South Australia.

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THE DNA TIES THAT BIND.

Jessica, Robin, Roma and Rachel. The Loop.

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Believing Alf Boxall

That was no sweet innocent quiet reserved young babe who wrote Verse 70.

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 “If the (Somerton Man’s) body had been taken to the place where it was found, the difficulties disappear.”

Coroner Cleland invites speculation as early as 1949.

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Was the state of the Somerton Man’s health a factor in his death?

Someone must have a doctor in the family.

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Was the Somerton Man seriously unwell?

The discrepancies between the effects of Glycoside poisoning and the condition Dwyer found the Somerton Man to be in may have indicated he was not only seriously unwell but in need of regular medical assistance prior to his sudden and unexpected death.

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DNA searching: a personal experience

My guess is the Somerton Man was estranged from his family as well and left few to no public records. So time is of the essence here… Matthew Kleid

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Boxall’s memories of Jessica and the meaning of Verse 70

‘She was a very quiet sort of girl ..’

Indeed, indeed, Repentance oft before

‘She was very young, she was very young, .. ‘

I swore – but was I sober when I swore?

‘..she was just a young girl.’

And then and then came Spring,

‘.. she would be a very reserved young woman.’

and Rose-in hand

‘.. very quiet sort of girl ..’

My thread-bare Penitence apieces tore.

‘.. and even today, I don’t know what the girl’s surname was.’

 

Littlemore: ‘That’s funny isn’t it, because she knew yours.’

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The meaning (of V70) is clear enough: The writer intended to mend his ways often enough, but never quite made it! The Spring and the Rose are here symbols of the attraction back to his old ways.

Bob Forrest.

Boxall’s responses lifted from Stuart Littlemore’s interview notes.

The incongruity evidenced above might lead to the conclusion that the inscription was not written by the same very young, quiet and reserved woman Alf Boxall remembered.

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