What powers does a coroner have?
Did Coroner Cleland have the power to depose a witness despite the objections of the local police?
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Question everything….
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Did Coroner Cleland have the power to depose a witness despite the objections of the local police?
The Somerton Man .. 
I’ve asked the same question to SteveH over at CM … perhaps he could try Google AI for assistance, I’ve already done that and am happy to report that we might have a new can of worms to deal with.
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PCC = Plain Clothes Constable, right? So what is this oath you mentioned?
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Guess pledge would be a more fitting appication to the matter in question, sans ‘Sworn on a bible Oath. That be what Feltus terms was a pact of witness identity non disclosure, one made between Det. R.Leane and hi sinformants John Freeman and Jessica Thomson at the time, as you’ll recall from the histerical novel.
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Absolutely Peteb. Happens all the time when investigations are incomplete; the coroner is most likely to agree to give police an extended time waiver which includes concealing the identities of witnesses with potentially case closing evidence.
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Coroner Tom Cleland adjourned the SM inquest on 21 June ’49. On 22 July his office was advised on police taking possession of a Rubaiyat sans Tamam Shud slip. Then on 26 July when an ex RNSH nursing sister came forward with information naming Alf Boxall as a SM candidate, they would have been notified. It goes without saying that in his learned opinion Coroner Cleland saw no sufficient grounds at all to re convene the inquest based on such low grade circumstancial evidence.
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You can’t speak for Cleland, despite what you think of yourself, and if you think that Freeman’s testimony would have been considered circumstantial, then so would the testimonies of the train station ticket and baggage staff, none of whom remembered anything of importance
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…. and the RoK was handed in to the police -the day after it was found, being the 23rd of July – in addition, Boxall was named by a newspaper on July 27, so much for your opinion that Cleland would have given the police extended time to conceal the names of witnesses with potentially case closing evidence. But didn’t you say that evidence coming from Harkness and Boxall was low grade circumstantial?
Which way do you want it, Dusty?
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Sorry to disappoint Bozo but you are mistaken my friend. The Herald (Melb.) Sat 23 July 1949 Page one, affirms my last post advice, in re the Freeman? ROK, it goes on to say ‘Adelaide police have brought off a one-in-a-million chance of solving the mystery of the body on the beach…A motorist last night (Fri 22) brought them a copy of “The Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyam,” from which the last two words had been torn. Should you have further doubts on my credability Peteb another half dozen rags tell much the same story.
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Here we go again … but I’ll stick with Feltus on the dates in that Leane got his hands on it on the day after Freeman found it in his car. But let’s go back to the question of what’s circumstantial and what isn’t. Are you really saying that the phone number on the back of the RoK, the nurse in whose name it was subscribed and finally, her dramatic reaction to seeing the bust and subsequent refusal to answer any of the accompanying polices’ questions was ‘low grade circumstantial’?
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Before I get cut off again Bozo, let me put your assertions re the nurse’s phone number, Lawson’s (three decade) delayed fainting spell and her negative responses to police questioning on the bust, all together in a nut shell, ie. most likely a load of bollocks put into context of making a good yarn for fools to argue the merits over and over ad infinitum; nothing circumstantial about that mugger.
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That’s how you concede isn’t it Dusty .. call it all bullshit and walk away. So I’ll see you around, eh Mugger
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The police spoke to Jessie, she lied about being married, put Boxall in the picture, denied any knowledge of the SM etc. After this scenario, the police had two choices either look into Jessie’s background and follow any leads or, simply lose interest. But, they obviously couldn’t tell Joe Public it was too hard a case for them to be bothered with. So, the public were fed bits of information, just to give the impression the police were on the job.
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I ain’t conceding jack shit Bozo and what’s more I ain’t going knowwhere, not of my own volition. I just love it when you test my mettle with your hyphebol and I come out on top, point of order being your stuff up with the date of the Ruby handover that you’re yet to come clean on. No matter mugsy catch you on the hop again no doubt!
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Low grade circumstantial – you want to get back to that? And while you’re considering it, check Feltus pages 104 and 105.
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Low grade circumstantial in my uneducated opinion equates to generally speaking, non material evidence compromised by deceitful human intervention and manipulated to create belief in its authenticity. Or else unsubstantiated repetitive hearsay that is more in your line of work than mine You want a more learned view on the subject try if you can to track down your favourite crime author TTT Feltus; he hasn’t been heard from lately…and no wonder!
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You’re saying the Freeman Rubaiyat is ‘non material’ to the case and who did the compromising? And who was the ‘deceitful individual’?
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I’m not saying for sure that the so called Freeman Rubaiyat was anything but a convenience put together by Leane on instuction from ‘A Higher Authority’ which if I may have the audacity to say so, is what you have suggested frequently if memory serves me correctly. I’m certainly not denying that the original Ron Francis Ruby was real, but the way it was presented to the public, more was more than likely contrived. Can you name any person apart from Leane and Brown (later) who ever laid eyes on it and lived to tell the tail? I can, but I’ve pledged to keep mum for the time being.
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Might be an idea to back off a bit mate. Just because Steve reckons I have a sense of humour, albeit “(warped)” and have serpent like attributes more venemous than you, we wouldn’t wish to give him the idea that we have little or no respect for one another; that is hearsay. Want to cop a ‘how’s yer father sport’ all in name calling fest. Get over to Big Footy missing B Kids and hear what they’re calling each other; ain’t pretty!
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’I’m not saying for sure.’
’A higher authority.’
’Was more than likely contrived.’
.. and I’ve pledged to keep mum.’
Pledged, to who?
All hardly convincing, more like a series of wriggles from the truth .. but I have to say, calling the Freeman Rubaiyat a non material piece of low grade circumstantial evidence then saying you doubted it existed in the first place does not fill me with any confidence that you know what you are talking about.
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By puting words in my ever sincere mouth mugger, you’re only exposing your silly forgetful old self to further well construed humiliation from the master of embuggerance and foul play. Be prepared is all I’m prepared to say on the matter for now. Got to get back to the grind, mind.
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You’re about as full of bullshit as I am, but that doesn’t make us brothers, I already have one and he’s about as full of it as we are.
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Yep, Tony the younger rudder was a spoiled brat as I recall and got to do all the OS trips with his parents while you were doing hard yakka for peanuts on the blood floor or something just as messy. I had brothers too; they were pure as the driven slime.
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Let’s move on ..
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I’m easy peterbowes # we could go back to figure out who was who in Feltus’ make believe Holman Minx if it suits you?
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All good ..
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Must reading before we can go further be laid bare in Cipher Mysteries thread of 4 Feb 2015 which outlines a1 com Pelling narrative on “The Hillman Minx that was or wasn’t…” in it Peter Bowes get’s top billing with his very well thought through hoax theory. outlining his own true thoughts on said existance or non existance of both the car and the planted ROK, courtesy of Det. Feltus, that Sapol’s Det. Leane put forward for easily deceived newspaper reader’s consumption. Yours thoughts Peteb and a word or two from Steve H as applicable.
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Coroners Act SA
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I’ve just mentioned that N. 1 #, Coroners Act 2003 (ammended). …and as for my bringing the Hillman Minx Feltus farce back from the grave for a long delayed re birthing; I’ve just reviewed the CM thread narrative and noted contents of 100 related posts (most by Peteb) that cover not only Pelling’s The Hillman Minx that was or Wasn’t, but also the controversial Somerton beach time & tide vagaries plus mysterious disappearance of Les Wytkin, first in with the million-to-one copy of a W & T ROK. Must reading for all genuine SM research stalwarts and any Carl Webb turncoats.
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Sincere apols. No. I #, not for getting your handle wrong but with regard to the ‘Coroners Act’ post that I sent off couple of days back in response to Peteb’s quest for a legal opinion. In fact could have sworn I had seen my “PDF SA Coroners Act 2003” related post on the board for general exhibition; now can’t see it, must be blind.
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Who else thinks Cleland shut down the inquest in the interests of a ‘Higher Authority?’
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Might pay for you to see yourself just what occupation Tom Cleland occupied himself with during the war years. And yes it certainly had oversight by a ‘Higher Authority’ one that was all seeing and not to be fucked with. I wasn’t at all surprised when I came upon it on Tom’s NAA file, surprised no Super Sleuth had got there before moi that is.
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Give mate, stop this ‘guess what I know and you don’t’ routine, we do you favours, reciprocate, ok?
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Favours like not pulling my posts, in order to gain the upper hand would be fine by me …. So go to NAA Thomas Erskine Cleland ‘All’ category. If you win the lottery (clue) then go to Thomas Erskine Cleland @ Wiki Tree for an interesting bio. I have confidence in your still being competent to suss out difficult stuff like that mate. Go for it.
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No mate, not interested, try another forum .. send me your goodbyes. And while you’re having a sulk, count the number of your comments on this thread.
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Steve H. bet me that I wouldn’t last til Xmas. I’m thrilled to bits and thanks for the free ride Bowsie, it was a hoot to boot. Don’t miss Cramer’s score board, he’ll catch up in no time now that your No. 1 # gravy train will no doubt be leaving the station soon.
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“Alamein train, departing platform 4. Stand clear please. Stand clear” Heard that at Flinders Street Station every week day in the past, starting my ride home to Burwood. But I won’t be on it Dusty
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