“This height thing is a nonsense ..” So sayeth David Morgan Esq.
David Morgan occupies a position of high regard over at CM, his comments must number in the thousands, his long, wordy comments, Morgan being a man of deep knowledge on many subjects, strange though how nobody affords him the same disrespect as is layered upon Cramer, deserved or not.
The nonsense Morgan refers to is the discussion about the height difference of the Somerton Man, 5’11” as measured, and the height of Charlie in the above photo, him being about 5’8”, same as the old man – in other words, Morgan’s position can be applied to the approximate 3” height difference between the elderly couple in that it too can be considered as a nonsense.
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The Somerton Man .. 
You got that right
Charlie was never in that photo
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You’re probably both right No 1. Push comes to shove neither was Somerton Man in the Webb family photo and that’s a fact!
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Dusty, where was it mentioned that the old boy was about 5’8” ?
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Richard Webb was about 5′ 8″ tall and first mentioned by poster ‘Poppins’ from Vic. prison records circa 1893. That’s according to ‘Site:Cipermysters.com’ archival records which are occasionally accurate.
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Thanks ..
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We covered this using the height of Roy as a reference from his military photo as VX45944 where he is measured as 5′ 7 1/2″
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To be fair Pete I’ve had a few goes at Dave and in return he started the whole thing about me being a sheila. But his “long, wordy” comments are nearly all AI generated which don’t count for much in the reams of windbaggery over on CM to which I may have contributed on the odd occasion!
As for consulting Dusty and his “Shite:Cipermysters.com” searches about Old Man Webb’s height, that is like consulting Donald Trump about painkillers. He – Dusty – denied that Dickie was a crim till he was blue in the face only to crumble into a heap when I finally proved him wrong.
It was Angela who first linked the prison record on 2 September 2022 but because it went into Nick’s spam folder it was missed until yours truly found it a while later and publicised the findings. I got dog’s abuse from Sanders, Jo and milongal but the truth is the truth and should never be covered up.
https://ciphermysteries.com/2022/08/30/this-somerton-man-news-cycle-seems-to-have-peaked#comment-469472
Don’t forget Dave is a respected SM researcher alongside Gordo as acknowledged by the ABC:
“Mr Cramer, who was a police officer in the United Kingdom before moving to Australia, has been researching the Somerton Man for 12 years.
He says he has a great amount of respect for Professor Abbott’s work, but believed the key to identifying the Somerton Man lay in the bones exhumed by police — in particular, his skull and teeth…
Fellow amateur researcher and student criminologist David Morgan has taken an interest in Carl Webb since he was possibly identified as the Somerton Man….
Mr Morgan is not convinced Webb was a spy, but said he found it “curious” that the address listed on Webb’s marriage certificate was once a mansion owned by Tristan Buesst, a major in military intelligence.”
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-09-02/is-carl-webb-really-the-somerton-man-and-was-he-a-spy/101375542
Pilchard had a whole ABC article chronicling his efforts.
Don’t think you, me or Dusty have ever been quoted by ANY respectable organs.
Bleedin’ cheek!
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Steve, we’ve had our differences… all of which are down to you of course, but what confounds me is why the silence about our grand revelation that Charlie, as pictured, cannot possibly be the Somerton Man. I mean WTF!! Are we witnessing a virus of not seeing the bleedingly bloody obvious or what?
Maybe there is a cure for that.
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I accept the blame for all our differences. In fact I’m rather proud of it.
As for the virus to which you refer the cure might be GC. According to GC that is. He used photogrammetry you see – all to do with Charlie and Roy’s shirt collars. Oh, and the fact that they were smiling.
“Odd as it may seem when a person smiles, their mouth opens slightly and the jawline drops measurably.”
Bleedin’ hell. I see a Nobel Prize for Physics winging Gord’s way.
See also this recent comment on TS/BS (1 Oct 2025):
“Anonymous
GC, can you please put PB out of his misery regarding CWs height? He must have missed your 2024 and the August 25 post.”
Anonymous is obviously either Dusty/JoJo or Gord himself.
And for the three inches.
Sod ’em!
“PB frets about Charlie Webb’s height
Well Steve H doesn’t give a damn shite
And if you ask Gordon Cramer
He will say “I don’t blame ‘er”
Cos Pete’s bark is far worse than his bite!”
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Not that the photo can be relied on as genuine, but even if it was, with Roy at 5′ 7 1/2″ and Charlie as slightly shorter, it puts Charlie at 5′ 7″ which is 4″ shorter than Somerton man.
As you say it is nonsense, generated by those who wanted to produce a result for their own self-interest, and that has wasted a whole stack of time for everyone
So let’s move on and see if we can find out who Somerton man really is
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The photograph is the problem, we don’t know where or when it was taken, nor do we know the date. Was it a special family celebration or, a day at the races? Stuart, if you are reading this please help!
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Clive : Family photo and gathering was at Bob Grace’s (Eliza Webb’s Bro) family home & convenience store, 97 Watton St. Werribee, on the occasion (most assuredly) of Richard August Webb’s seventieth birthday, March 12 !936. Thought we all had agreed on that; all except for Pat, Joe, Steve H and Stuart Webb of course.
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Yeah, and there’s Amy, supposedly near death after a long illness looking happy and with no sign of her daughter, also named Amy.
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Peter! I did query the ID of Amy WAY back (April the 22nd 2023):
“Also Amy Tomkinson looks very young, even if the photo is from 1925.”
https://ciphermysteries.com/2022/12/28/dating-the-webbs-family-photo#comment-487215
Scroll down a couple of comments for Stuart Webb’s reply.
Then on April the 27th I wrote:
“A while back I convinced myself that the photo was taken in 1928/29, the little girl being Daniel Martin’s daughter Norma, with the kid in front being Jack or Leo Keane. I was very surprised that Stuart said that Gerald Keane wasn’t in the photo. As I stated in my reply to him, given the close relationship between Charlie and the Keanes it made sense that the hand “prank” was on Gerald.
To be honest I can’t see any resemblance between the blond Charlie – who looks about 20 to me – in the family photos and the bloke in the Somerton Man photos, but some people seem to look different in every picture taken of them, especially those taken when they are dead, and to be honest my recognition skills ain’t the best…
I’ve no idea who Normie M is. Perhaps Stuart will find some more info.”
Of course Stuart later confirmed that “Normie” was indeed Norma.
On May the 4th (be with you) I wrote:
“Some CM commenters, especially Jamie S, have been worried about the woman who Stuart Webb identified as “Amy”, and particularly her lack of embonpoint in the chest department. They have concluded that this individual is a girl. To me she looks like a fully grown woman, but not one in her 30s, especially one who died in 1929 after suffering from a long illness according to the Camperdown Chronicle of 6 June 1929:
“Mrs. Webb, wife of Mr. Russell Webb.
Deceased, who had been ill for some
considerable time, was a well-known
resident of Camperdown, where she
had many friends who will grieve to
hear of her death.””
Don’t know where Dusty gets the idea that anyone else thinks the photo was taken in Werribee. As Sam Weller would have said “That’s wery silly”. Funnily enough I had referred to a couple of Mr Dickens’ characters in an earlier comment about Werribee (posting as Boney) on January the 11th 2023:
“If I span out my research findings in Dickensian episodic dribs and drabs Our Mutual Friend Mr P might ban me from the forum. Not before time come to think of it. Are you The Artful Dodger or Scrooge? One day pinching other people’s findings such as Ann O’s stunning revelations about Nan Sparrow living on Moseley Street, the next keeping your miserly mitts on your own “discoveries” such as the Webbs all decamping to Werribee for a picnic at Drooping Cock or whichever place it was you triangulated from a sighting of a distant skyscraper on Collins Street and a puff of smoke from a faraway Trans-Australian Railway loco which had somehow ended up on the line to Williamstown. What happened to that spectacular lead?”
https://ciphermysteries.com/2023/01/01/gladys-may-webb-and-leslie-william-scott#comment-481679
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Steve .. the delicious irony is that the blonde tagged as Charlie in the photo is in fact Charlie, though not the Charlie dear Derek has proposed as being the real Charlie.
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Pete old nut. Don’t get me sucked into the blond v blonde debate again. Last time it quite spoilt Pilchard’s week. Unless you think “Charlie” is actually Charlotte! That would please Dusty as he has a penchant for misgendering people.
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Steve, with great respect, I find your blasé dismissal of the illnamed ‘Charlie’ as unbecoming of your intellect, something that Dusty has regularly praised as being above the less than normal of most who populate this impoverished website. Myself included… nevertheless I feel your indelicate dismissal of the BLEEDINGLY OBVIOUS, in that Stuart and Christy have been fooled by the machinations of the Professor (ears) is entirely misplaced.
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Two lookalike fellows seated in front of SM imposter Charlie in the Weeribee gathering of 1936 (not 1925 as folks including Steve H., (@ Sparrow fart) would have us believe, be father and son Robert Henry Grace born 1875 and Robert John Grace, 1905. Interesting that Grace Jr. and cousin Chuck Webb were born in the same year and place. Might pay someone with some nouse to clarify whether Steve’s Trans-Australia Railway claim be the correct terminology as opposed to Trans-Continental and if so, did it transit Werribee on the way to Adelaide. All of her Trump ramblings are in essence totally irrelevant in light of her nonsensical Carl Webb = Somerton man affirmation. NB see NAA inlistment photo of Bob Grace Jr. (no dog Steve).
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Dusty is wrong about most things Pete. And he is CERTAINLY wrong about my “above the less than normal of most who populate this impoverished website” intellect. I’ve said before, and I’ll probably say it again, it’s all smoke and mirrors. My faith is in Colleen rather than Derek. If she is wrong in her “100%” ID of Carl Webb as Somerton Man then not only will no-one ever trust the DNA Doe Project again, but there will follow numerous lawsuits based on Identifinders International’s identification of likely murderers and rapists.
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It would appear that Steve H @ Ann O’s100% faith in Colleen Fitzpatrick be set in bone or stone, despite the fact that their Carl Webb DNA ID solution be based on nothing more than smoke and mirrors. Unlike criminologist Xanthe Mallet who doesn’t have the degree of confidence or a ‘T. Keane’ to support her decision making. I might also mention in passing wind that neither expert has followed through with any supporting update in years which is telling.
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