3 – The OTHER Charlie Webb in the family.
Charles Richard Webb – born 1917, son of Russell Webb, Roy and Carl’s brother.
Same chap, years younger.
Same colour hair. Same tufted hair above the ears. Same curly hair. Same parting on the left side. Same bulbous forehead. Same left ear prominent. Same right ear not so. Same height as Roy. Same surname as Carl Webb. Same family. Both named Charles. SAME DNA. Official. No Derek Abbott involvement. Enough said.
Roy was known to be 5’8” as was the old man on the left – The Somerton Man however was 5’11 ..
All provided of course that the family photo below was taken later than 1929 and the Amy tagged is in fact her daughter, also named Amy and who was born in 1919. Amy (the mother) died in 1929, not long after the photo was taken and after a lengthy illness. Another indication that it isn’t Amy senior is that if so she doesn’t appear to have taken her young daughter to the family get together.
Amy the daughter thought to be pictured here aged about 20.
Whoever tagged this fellow as Charlie wasn’t wrong, however he’s more likely to be Charlie Richard Webb.
The Somerton Man .. 
Yep, Charles Richard Webb standing next to his old man Russell
Uncle Carl Charlie is not there (maybe he was antisocial then as well)
Who is the man below Charles Richard Webb’s hand ?
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Could be Keane
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Yep, Gerald Thomas
Freda is below him
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I cant see the big blond fella up the back as Russell, this is a report of him from the Victorian Police Gazette dated August 17 1911″ Deserters of wives and children”Charged with deserting his illegitimate child at Shepparton , description, bakers driver, about 18 years of age, 5 feet 3 or 4 inches, medium build, medium complexion, brown hair, round features, inclined to be small, no hair on face. He would have been 42 if the picnic photo was taken in 1933.
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plus his wife is apparently very ill in the group photo and passes away shortly after yet she’s sitting in the front looking in good health while he’s right up the back, one would think if she ” was ill for a considerable time” as the newspapers said at the time of her death he would be sitting behind her as many of the other couples are doing and which was the norm in the day?
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Shabs, you know what’s our real problem here? That’s the almost impossibility of the coroner to accept what we are going on about here, yet alone Derek Abbott and Stuart Webb. We are flying solo.
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yep, I think they rushed to put out the photo of ” Charlie” and now can’t back track and admit ” whoops, two Charlie Webb’s in the family, we made a mistake”.
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Perhaps Carl Charlie was holding the camera?
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So, we don’t have a photo of Carl Charles Webb anywhere
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Yes we do, he’s on the morgue slab.
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Norma’s age and Amy’s death date are the two main factors in dating the group photo currently. If by some miracle Amy attended the picnic one month before her death which seems unlikely as she had been unwell for ” some considerable time” from newsreports in 1929 and appears very well in the photo then Norma is less than 3 and a half here. Years as a child care provider, mother, grandmother , foster parent and someone who daily is in the primary school system I disagree and would estimate her to be at the very least 18 months older. Remembering too that children were smaller 90 years ago than today’s children therefore an estimate of between 5 and 7 would be an educated guess, but I can’t see 3 and a half. Once Amy’s death doesn’t factor in we come back to some time after 1930 which means the young circled Charlie is 25 or older, again it just doesn’t look correct. Or is it Somerton Man’s nephew Charlie that’s been circled as the face of Carl Webb?
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Shabs .. Perhaps Stuart got Norma wrong as well, they were a big family, kids everywhere and Stuart unwilling to share any more photographs, let alone those conveniently tagged by name, and by the way, good to see you still are on the case.
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Yep, it’s the nephew Charles Richard Webb in the top right of the family photo. You can have an early minute.
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Who’s the sourpuss behind Emma Keane?
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So, Charles Richard Webb was born on 25 Jan 1917, strange that his enlistment form makes no mention of Richard. His age in the family photo would be 12, if taken in 1929, Richard August Webb died in April 1939, is it possible this photo was taken in 1937/8?
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No it’s not 1929. That’s only on an incorrect assumption by their family as to whom the family members are. More likely mid 30’s
It’s Charles Richard Webb in the top right corner for sure
So as PB said all we have to go on is the photo of SM on the slab and that means we have diddly squat without them offering up more photos and one of Carl Charlie from their album to compare it.
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Clive, Charlie’s war records do list R Webb, father and two addresses, one in Ringwood i think from memory and one in Eltham where Russell ran a bus service.
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I’m thinking Charlie changed his birth year to sign up? His parents , Amy and Russell were married July 4th 1917, Charlie’s school enrollment with his 3 siblings has his birthdate as 25th Jan 1918, the kids moved from a school in East Ringwood, Victoria to Abbortsford Convent after Amy’s death. Amy must have been about 8 weeks pregnant when they got married which might explain why she had a very small wedding, wore grey and her brother gave her away? If Charlie was born in 1917 it was six months before his parents married.
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Which makes you wonder why the big secrecy about the photos of Carl Charlie, is Stuart Webb holding back release of any photos due to a deal with a certain academic, whose name escapes me at present.
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Could it be that the photos they have of Carl Charlie Webb from the 1930’s don’t have the slightest resemblance to the guy on the slab and they’ve thrown everyone a curve ball with photos of Charles Richard?
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@#1: This would be close to my thoughts too. Wherever people are careful about releasing information you have to suspect that something is being hidden.
Release stuff that supports your story and withhold anything that even hints at discrediting it.
This feels very curated – we can only give you pictures that allow you to “identify” the man on the slab.
Maybe they make the argument of privacy – but then why release a photo with the whole gang in the first place?
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plus .. were all the photos in that album that Stuart Webb found tagged? And how many more pages were stuck together?
I smell a mouse in the house.
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can anyone else see the similarities between the ” Russell ” in the photo and the body on the slab? If you look at the interview that the family did they show the photos in the album and there is one with a piece of paper with Russell written on it, he’s standing infront of a car and doesn’t look like the Russell in the group photo? I think they were in such a hurry to get a photo of Charlie out in the public before they had cross checked all the images and before all names were known they found the wrong Charlie Webb.
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Russell was short 5’4″ Then it isn’t Russell in the group photo
Could it be that we are looking at Carl Charles and not Russell
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that’s been my thoughts since I first saw the news story and photo last year. I did a photo edit of ” Russell” from the group shot and the body on the slab and they are very very similar. Ran the group shot through a photo colouring app and it tinted ” Russell’s” hair ginger same as the autopsy report said about the body.
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But Russell’s hair Shabs … looks wrong for SM standing up like that.
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and if Russell actually is Carl Charile, Carl can’t be Somerton man because he’s not 5’11. We’re reaching the point where none of the Webbs are Somerton man. They’re all too short. It runs in the family
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If ” Russell” in the group photo is Carl he would have been 28 to 30 when I think the photo was taken, when he died the report said 5’11, well built, broad shouldered and square, large hands, gingery coloured hair, fairly course, grey at the sides, no parting. Pretty good description of the guy in the group photo if it was taken years earlier before the grey?
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put the photos side by side Pete, and compare the mouth, head shape, thick neck, thick hair etc. Then add in that Russell was short , round faced etc from the police report. I’m sure that’s Carl up the back standing next to his nephew Charlie.
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Well, I reckon Carl Webb is the Somerton Man, but the photo of Carl Charlie Webb is not the same bloke. But try convincing the coroner.
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The small guy with the hat on behind Emma may be Russell. I reckon he’d stand about 5’4″
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GC’s probably hard at work already working out his height. He could be a tradie from his build but he’s not 5’11” and his face isn’t the same as the guy on the slab. So even if he is Carl Webb (likely) it means Carl Webb isn’t Somerton man.
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Whoever that is labelled Russell. He’s a good candidate for the morgue subject.
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