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How a seemingly ordinary life might conceal an intelligence operation

Some time ago Shabs (Sharon Cochrane) opened up a lovely can of worms involving Australia’s then Secretary of the Department of Defence Sir Frederick Geoffrey Shedden (KCMG, OBE) and a member of the Webb family, being Norman Webb – pictured below, his ‘private’ chauffeur.

What is also worth remembering is that in 1947 the vetting procedures for a position such as Norman held were probably quite primitive, despite the importance of the man he was driving to and from various meetings, some involving senior representatives of MI5 – ASIO was two years away from the beginning its operation and only the state police able to handle any perceived intelligence matters … no wonder the Americans didn’t trust us.

Two posts were made on the subject (check link) and many questions were provided with possible answers.

Meet Norman Webb, Shedden’s private chauffeur.

 

https://tomsbytwo.com/?s=Norman+webb

 

22 Comments Post a comment
  1. Given Shedden’s importance in matters of national security, would you consider it strange that instead of opting to have a cleared and trusted driver he chose an untested civilian instead?

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    August 1, 2024
  2. Clive #

    Perhaps Shedden gave the responsibility for choosing his driver to his subordinates? (He may have felt his position was too high & mighty to deal with such a trivial matter of a personal driver?) Reports seem to suggest he could be quite a curt and arrogant person i.e. he didn’t suffer fools gladly. Then, I suppose the question is, how did Norman Webb find himself driving the likes of Shedden? What were Norman’s skills that outshone other candidates, ‘best bus driver of the year’ award?

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    August 1, 2024
  3. Perhaps Norman was chosen for him .. not because he was an agent of Russia, but because he was an innocent abroad and only too glad to recount various details of his various trips with Shedden with someone who had a more sinister view of world events at the time.

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    August 1, 2024
    • Clive #

      And possibly, someone who wanted Norman to make a note of what Shedden knew or, what Norman overheard?

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      August 2, 2024
      • …… or who he was transporting with Shedden and to what destination. All very tasty info given the times. Shedden was at the meetings where communist involvement in the leaking of information was discussed, meetings that included the presence of MI5 head Percy Sillitoe where they were very concerned that the US no longer considered Australia as trustworthy with regard to keeping secrets.

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        August 2, 2024
        • Clive #

          It’s probably true to say that it wasn’t only the US that was concerned about Australia and secrets but, the UK as well. So, likewise communists would obviously be well aware that Australia was the weakest link and, they no doubt, knew individuals who they could bribe, blackmail, threaten etc. Especially, an individual or individuals with access to high ranking military personnel.

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          August 2, 2024
  4. No. 1 #

    Poor old GC and HIS can of worms

    Incorrect assumption. There is no evidence that dental chart is from the man on the beach. We don’t know if there was a mix up or any other possibility. It would need to be dated and marked “from unknown man on Somerton beach” and have an official mark ie govt stamp or morgue file number. It is inadmissible evidence in proof of identity. Furthermore it cannot be verified by Dwyer because Dwyer is dead

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    August 2, 2024
  5. Clive #

    No. 1: If we could only ask the SM but, he’s dead too, that’s the tooth!

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    August 2, 2024
  6. No. 1 #

    “I made a post mortem exam at the City Mortuary on the body pointed out to me as being that found on the foreshore at Somerton on 1st December”.

    Pointed out. That’s him over there…we think

    There is no guarantee that it was the man on the beach and for all we know it was a different person and the mouth of an undernourished street drunk

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    August 3, 2024
    • No, wrong … Mounted Constable Knight identified the body in the ambulance as being the same man as he had seen on the beach. No 1 .. I’m thinking you’ve been unable to read Feltus’ book, right?

      Like

      August 3, 2024
      • No. 1 #

        Constable Sutherland pointed out the body in the morgue not Constable Knight. What Constable Sutherland thought was the body on the beach anyway. So we have that element of doubt about it all.

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        August 3, 2024
        • Wrong again mate .. The point being, like a chain of evidence the ID of the body could only be verified by an on-scene witness, being Knight.

          Like

          August 3, 2024
          • With all respect, No 1, I still can’t figure out how a man apparently dying from a mysterious poison by the steps can be seen alive in the evening, then ducking off for a pasty before changing his trousers coming back and and dying by the same steps.

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            August 3, 2024
            • No. 1 #

              … and there may have been two bodies in the morgue that ‘accidentally’ got mixed up. We are adrift in an ocean of uncertainty

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              August 4, 2024
          • No. 1 #

            Respectfully, not wrong, just of a different opinion to you

            Like

            August 4, 2024
  7. Clive #

    What were the chances of two bodies arriving at the West Terrace morgue within a short time period and, mistakes with the i.d. tags? Highly unlikely, I realize, but a possibility?

    Like

    August 3, 2024
  8. Greg Garcia Allen #

    I was thinking the same! But it does happen more then than now, we got computers and DNA to thank.

    Liked by 1 person

    August 4, 2024
    • We know that according to Cleland’s notes there was a bloodstain on SM’s shirt though he had no wound to explain it so we can only assume it was blood contamination from another body, possibly from one of the morgue trolleys.

      Be good know if any records exist of coroner’s findings for 1949

      Like

      August 4, 2024
      • Clive #

        Awaiting a reply from the Coroner re: 1949

        Like

        August 6, 2024
  9. Clive #

    If the blood, and it’s a big if, on the SM’s shirt, came from one of the morgue trolleys, doesn’t it suggest an indifference to maintaining standards? It’s not as if bodies were arriving every 5 minutes at the West Terrace morgue and being piled on top of trolleys. My thoughts are that the ensuing police ‘investigation’ and general air of incompetency in this case, started at the West Terrace morgue.

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    August 4, 2024
    • Maybe that’s the reason Xanthe Mallett reckons we will never be certain SM will be identified as Webb. Somebody else’s blood, somebody else’s hair.

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      August 4, 2024
  10. Clive #

    When you come to think about it, what better place to ‘sabotage’ evidence at the earliest opportunity, than at a morgue?

    Like

    August 4, 2024

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