Calypso’s view
Sometimes comments are lost as they accumulate, particularly in a site like CM where they can be counted in their hundreds per post, which is a shame as some contributors deserve better, like Calypso, who came then went and has come again. Not a sulker this fellow.
His words ..
“Studying items that are misplaced, missing or lost can play an important role in shedding more light on the circumstances of this case. Not just lost potentially incriminating evidence, but also items that appear to be lacking from Carl W.’s person and suitcase.
Something to contemplate on. It is the set of items as a whole that appears to be missing from the inventory of this case that is very interesting. This involves a hat, spare change or a wallet, a watch and shaving soap, which are all items one can get separated from in a dressing area.
Apparently he had shaved, but then somehow the shaving items ended up in the suitcase except for the shaving soap, with not even time to put on a watch. This sort of event takes place in a bathroom setting. Needless to say, if there was no time to put on a watch, there would also not be time anymore to put on a hat and a wallet.
This would imply that the suitcase was not taken to the Station locker room by himself, but was staged by a perpetrator. It would be reasonable to assume that a perpetrator would not find it important to lock the suitcase either, and Carl W. would not have a ticket of the locker room on him. Likewise, this leaves a greater chance that the Glenelg bus ticket was also staged.”





And it might explain the abrasions between the knuckles of his hand .. possibly defensive.
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Would the abrasions be between the knuckles from a fight? I read an interesting news article from the day where one fella during police questioning on horse doping “knew” that a horse had been force fed a pill as he noticed the accused had abrasions between his knuckles and on the back of his hand. Drug users inject between toes and fingers but normally only once the elbow bend is too damaged to inject easily.
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Yes exactly, it might explain the abrasions as well, and the tear in the arch of the shirt, if he had a (poisoned?) knife put on his throat. The missing set may well point to the exact moment he was overpowered, during dress-up.
From this, more pieces of the puzzle can be tried to add together.
For instance, where may this have taken place. It’s less likely that this would have taken place in a public place such as the City Baths. E.g., it’s hard to overpower a strong guy like that, wait for him to suffer and die and get rid of the body in public. Some pension would be a better candidate. Recall that there has been a witness who stated that he had spoken to the SM in a lobby and was shown the card of a military pension with a foreign name on it where he had claimed to stay.
Then, I believe there was another victim in this case who would need to fit in the puzzle. I refer to the man with the striped pants, who was seen by other witnesses on the beach being carried off in the other direction towards the Pier where the booklet was dropped in a car. The same man who probably hid the Tamam Shud paper (finished) on Carl W.’s body in an attempt to warn authorities. It can be easily imagined that Mr. Striped Pants unsuspectingly came into the pension room later (perhaps having been on a chore such as buy a trainticket) and was also overpowered.
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Calypso, There was a man called Solomonson who showed a pension card with that name on it. At a pub in Glenelg, which I suspect to the the Broadway Hotel on Broadway at Glenelg, a pub only 5 mins walk from a certain house on Moseley St.
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Clive, yes this is the newsarticle:
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article43794348
They apparently met on Tuesday. If that’s true, Carl W. was getting dressed at an unusual time.
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There is such a strong horse connection to all the players? I find the dates of Amritsars doping, Miles being charged with hiring someone to keep watch, Underwood’s connection to the Governor of South Australia, seeds and riding boots all lead me to think murder then government coverup.
The owner of Warlaby stud in Oaklands Victoria and V.R.C committee member Mr E.A Underwood was the breeder of Daffadar owned by Sir Willoughby Norrie the Governor of South Australia.Underwood was also the owner of 1948 Melbourne Cup favourite Lungi , until the horse was injured on the 21st October 1948 and ended up being used as a stud.Other favourites for the Melbourne Cup that year were Dark Marne, Royal Gem, Beau Gem and Crown Gem, Royal Gem was also bred at Underwood’s stud.There were many big name horses in the Glenelg area in November 1948, one news report reads, 15th November 1948 Comic Court back in his Glenelg stables after travelling between Melbourne and Adelaide via train.
Underwood and the other committee members overturned the Dick Turpin ban after it was discovered the horse had been doped with Benzedrine for his Flemington win ( Argus 27th October 1948).It appears Mr Underwood may have been naive as a news article under the heading of “Black Market Betting” reads, Mr Underwood said he did not believe there was a blackmarket in betting but the newspaper challenged this by saying ” if Mr Underwood is sincere in his belief then he is out of touch with the betting side of horseracing”
Horse doping was happening at the time as further inquiry’s revealed. One article dated after S.M’s body is found, “a stablehand reports finding a broken bottle and tablets at the Gibertaon’s stables in Glenelg.”
Underwood’s horse Amritsar went on to be doped with Strychnine at Moonee Valley in Victoria on the 27th of November 1948 which launched a huge inquiry. At the time Underwood is quoted ” I hope the individual who gave the colt the needle will be tracked down, this sort of thing sickens one” During the inquiry a witness couldn’t be located even though police looked as far as Brisbane. In December stable hand John Miles was found guilty and banned for 5 years. ” Miles was found guilty of a charge of an improper practice in as much as he endeavoured to secure the services of an apprentice at the stable to assist him by keeping watch to permit him to administer a stimulant to Amritsar “So Miles had hired someone to keep watch, that someone was never named. The vet Dr Bordeaux on examination of the horse stated ” the job was done by an amateur, my experience tells me that a professional would have gone about the job in a very different way”During the investigation Miles admitted to doping horses before so was he an amateur or professional?S.M. had grass seeds on his pullover, singlet and on the trousers in the suitcase. Barley grass grows in most of the southern states of Australia, the grass is fed to horses but not the seeds as they aren’t good for them.I can understand him having seeds on his socks or trousers from walking around but pullover and singlet?Could Carl Webb who we now know enjoyed a bet on the horses and had feet consistent with wearing riding boots ( or high heels) have been working around horses?Hired as an amateur to dope a horse or hired to keep watch? Did he head to S.A to recieve payment? Buying a one way train ticket may not be confirmation of an intended suicide but that he had another mode of transport planned for his journey back to collect his suitcase? Prosper’s taxi service maybe, phone number in his poetry book and Prosper offered race meeting and long distance service.Another point of interest was the news report dated November 10th 1948 has the upcoming Royal visit with the royals visiting Morphettville Racetrack on May 28th 1949.Queen Elizabeth spent a day at Underwood’s property in 1954 during her Royal visit
.Maybe those in power really needed the story of horse doping, gangs, missing witnesses and bodies on the beach to go away before the Royal visit?
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Calypso: So, another victim-possibly ‘the original body’ that Paul Lawson noted in his diary? Probably, a bit to far fetched?
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Clive, or he was dumped at sea by a boat in the Haven. All we know is that he was seen being carried towards the Pier and the booklet ended up in the parked car near the Pier. However the area near the Pier probably was more risky for being seen carrying a man.
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as I’m new to this and I know the horse angle had been looked at was there ever any connection established between Mr Sydney Lyons the owner of Dick Turpin and the John Bain Lyons who discovered the body? The Dick Turpin charge was only overturned after a lot of public pressure was placed on the V.R C of which Underwood was a member .
One paper asks,” has the V R.C instituted a reign of terror in the racing game with threats of reprisals if witnesses in this appeal have the temerity to disclose what is going on in secret?”
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Shabby: Sydney Lyons seemed to attract attention in the Melbourne newspapers per his involvement with dubious individuals-was he connected to Mannie Lyons, another bookmaker, perhaps it was a family affair? Horses for courses?
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yes father and son and the second son is referred to a J or Jack. I was just surprised to see that he was a jeweller like John Lyons who reported the body so I wonder if it’s the same fella?
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Shabby #
Looks like you missed the mark with Jack & Syd, they being sons of Mannie (A.M. or Emanual Lyons) of the well known Melbourne racing family. Whereas John Bain Lyons father was John James Lyons both being honest Adelaidians and not at all likely to have shonky equine connections. That’s not to say that Jack Bains Lyons was likely to look a gift horse in the mouth should he meet one one on the bus to Somerton with a spare pair of socks full of sparklers at a fair price.
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bugger, thought it was too good to be true 👍 yet another strange coincidence then.
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Yep, lots of coincidences in this case Lyons, Webbs to name but two.
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Missed something, dental plates could probably also be added to the missing set.
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Always wondered how a man could be so well built as SM yet not have enough teeth to chew a sausage. When Prof Cleland examined his teeth he remarked that there was no signs on them of ever having to support dentures…
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