Train ticket? What train ticket?
The day the unidentified body was found, PC Moss dug two tickets out of his ticket pocket one of which was purchased the previous day at Adelaide Central. This ticket was included as evidence and no doubt perused by the detectives given early supervision of the case.
A man might think it was a simple matter to have them request that a copper visit the station and have a chat with the ticket seller while his memory was fresh. Well that never happened. Ever.
Perhaps someone smarter than me can supply an explanation for this abandonment of normal police investigative practice .. because I’m flummoxed.
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The Somerton Man .. 
and the railway worker was on holiday during the inquest and no statement was taken from him. A senior porter gave evidence about the cloak room procedure for the inquest but one would think that the actual worker who sold the ticket and stored the suitcase should have been called. The senior porter said other articles had been deposited that day and had also remained unclaimed. One wonders if the police looked into those items.
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Another point against suicide is a daily fee was charged when depositing items onto the cloak room. Each additional day it was in storage incurred another fee and people had to pay up to collect items. If you are catching the train to the beach to end your life surely you don’t pay to put your suitcase in the cloak room?
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If you don’t intend to come back and collect your suitcase you would never check it in at the cloakroom in the first place
You can’t blend in if you are carting a suitcase around all day and it is a problem just carting it around anyway so you check it in. When you have sorted out your business and know where things are you go back and pick it up
He couldn’t go back and pick it up because he was intercepted at Glenelg
He bought a train ticket to Henley Beach upstairs at one of the booking office windows on North Terrace by mistake because he didn’t know his way around. Downstairs in the station, uncertain about his destination he probably asked the “man in blue” who was an institution at Adelaide railway station from 1938. (Advertiser Mon 28 March 1938 p.16) who would have told him, no mate, Henley train doesn’t go near Glenelg, you need to take the bus upstairs in North Terrace. http://www.flickr.com/photos/129023979@N05/51110428144
He is from overseas and has never been to Adelaide before
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Unless he was involved with horses, bookies, gambling and planned to be at Morphettville Race track , the bus went right past there but the train didn’t. Races were running there that day and horses were trained on the beach where he was found, add in grass seeds found in his socks and trousers and I believe he checked in his suitcase, bought a one way ticket , found out the bus went right past the race track so decided on the bus. I think he planned to hire Prosper and his taxi service for his trip out of Adelaide hence his phone number in the code book. Maybe a big win or pay off for a horse ringing job well done had him planning to leave Melbourne for a fresh start in W.A as mentioned to his sister . New suitcase, new shoes, fresh haircut, fresh start? Plenty of motive for murder if he was mixed up in doping horses, blackmail, payback, drug laced cigarette explains why no trace was found and the two brands of cigarettes. If only I could prove it lol
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The Glenelg tram goes right past Morphettville Racecourse, and there is a tram stop right there. He would have taken the tram from the city. In fact special trams were put in service on race days marked as RACES. So we can dismiss horse racing
The quickest way to Glenelg from Adelaide Railway Station, you’d take a city tram from North Terrace down King William Street to Victoria Square, or walk that short distance and then get the Glenelg tram at Victoria Square outside Charles Moore’s on the Square
He’s an out-of-towner who hasn’t got a clue how to get himself somewhere
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That being the case, no-one (btw, can we improve on that pseudonym?) what would you expect an out of town punter to have in his suitcase or on his person to improve his winning chances?
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A cobbled together collection of makeshift weapons made from scissors, knives, garott, would guarantee his winning chances
Last post as No One then. You know who I am anyway
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I think it makes more sense to use the train if you have luggage to store at the train station. He checked his luggage between 11 and 12 and didn’t want to wait till 11.51 for the next train after missing the earlier one. The bus was the next easy choice as it was right out the front of the station, paid for it on the bus and could get off at the racetrack. Maybe he didn’t like trams? Who knows but I don’t think we can rule out one line of thought just because he didn’t use a tram .
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So, to answer your question
The more you dig down the greater the evidence is that the powers that be were up to something
and that’s where Carl Webb which is a simplistic answer to it all just doesn’t fit the picture
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No One in particular #
SM bought his ticket to HB (platform 9) from a double star booth on Webb Concourse off North Terrace, no reason not to. Doug Townsend who had no recall of the sale was a waif and served in the RAAF in WW2. He later became a Harley St. shrink and visited Vietnam in 1967 to study war neurosis PTSD cases. Amazing some of the people you come across in Adelaide eh?
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Did he buy his HB ticket from a ticket office on the left at the bottom of the stairs off North Terrace ?
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Curious about that source of information
HB line was platform 8
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Sorry Shabby no races at Morphetville on the 30/11/48 as I think I explained here recently, or was it CM. Best to work on well researched known facts and not rely on guesswork.
As for the ticket booth @No One, seems in ’48 the double star box was first of eleven? mid concourse? on the left as one enters from North Terrace. Never been there so hope I’m right.
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FWIW
Born in Adelaide and grew up here 1950’s on
Lived in many cities and back here now
I do have a lot of local knowledge
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hi @ John, I’ve found on Trove a couple of news articles about races run on the 30th at Morphettville. one article with a photo of a horse called Daffadar, owned by the governor of South Australia Sir Willoughby Norrie. Under the image is written ” he worked well at Morphettville on Tuesday “
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Tuesday 30th November 1948 page 7
Good seven furlong trial by Attley.
” and half mile in 50 sec. on a middle grass at Morphettville this morning”
Advertiser Wednesday 1 December 1948
Sparkling Trails On Local Track
” with the middle grass like lightning and conditions ideal at Morphettville yesterday, there were many sparkling trails by horses holding important engagements in the near future”
both on Trove, I don’t think the tram would run special for a Tuesday trail day?
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Tell a lie, I railed to Adelaide on the Overlander May ’67, got a local rattler up Mt. Barker (?) and that’s my lot with SA rail.
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Oh yeah, when I was an unaccompanied youth of little inhibition I signed on to a fruit pickers train that travelled from Sydney via Melbourne via Adelaide then back up to the border to Dareton wherein I lived in a bug invested hut with a homicidal Queenslander, a navy deserter, a weeping Pom and somebody I forget ..
Though the weekends in Mildura were classic, especially the church dances we invaded, looking for companionship.
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Studying items that are misplaced, missing or lost can play an important role in shedding more light on the circumstances of this case. Not just lost potentially incriminating evidence, but also items that appear to be lacking from Carl W.’s person and suitcase.
Something to contemplate on. It is the set of items as a whole that appears to be missing from the inventory of this case that is very interesting. This involves a hat, spare change or a wallet, a watch and shaving soap, which are all items one can get separated from in a dressing area.
Apparently he had shaved, but then somehow the shaving items ended up in the suitcase except for the shaving soap, with not even time to put on a watch. This sort of event takes place in a bathroom setting. Needless to say, if there was no time to put on a watch, there would also not be time anymore to put on a hat and a wallet.
This would imply that the suitcase was not taken to the Station locker room by himself, but was staged by a perpetrator. It would be reasonable to assume that a perpetrator would not find it important to lock the suitcase either, and Carl W. would not have a ticket of the locker room on him. Likewise, this leaves a greater chance that the Glenelg busticket was also staged.
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He must have had money on him when he left the train station as he paid for his bus ticket on the bus. He may have had the other items with him except the shaving soap of course. It makes sense that he had his hat on, carrying his coat maybe as most men wore hats, without a hat he would have been more memorable.
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So someone took the time to board a bus to Glenelg a that time and on that day and buy a ticket just so they could say – see he took the bus to Glenelg
I can’t see that happening
I can see that SM dropped his suitcase at the cloakroom
that “they” had the cloakroom ticket after they intercepted him at Glenelg and knew something had been checked in
that “they” were working out some of their moves on the fly and took their time about it to consider various scenarios
including that the case wasn’t fingerprinted and so there is no proof that the case belonged to Carl Webb, but it did belong to SM
The suitcase doesn’t show that Carl Webb is SM
By the way, if you wore a hat you could be identified from a distance. Detectives always wore hats in that era and for decades after when everyone else stopped wearing them and everyone could spot a detective a mile off
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I’m not understanding your reply. Just looking at the evidence we can say that he bought a train ticket, didn’t enter the platform as it hadn’t been clicked. Put his luggage in after 11 but before 12. He then walked out the station and got on the bus buying his ticket on the bus.As he didn’t want to sit around waiting for the next train possibly he had somewhere to be or someone to meet at a particular time. If he got on the bus with no hat, no coat, no watch and no money one would think that other bus users would have remembered him once the story hit the news papers. Most people remember odd things that stand out from the normal.
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He could have walked to Victoria Square and caught a tram down to Glenelg. But, since he walked out of the railway station and caught a bus virtually opposite, seems likely he had an ‘appointment’ with someone, then again what happened to his timepiece, presuming he had one? Along with his wallet, money, hat, ring(s). papers etc. He certainly didn’t wander around Glenelg that day, so when he got off that bus who met him?
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Shabby suggest you read some of the Tbt Barry Traish news clips and don’t fall into the trap of believing everthing you get from unsubstantiated sources. Case in point might include Truth and Advertiser who both refer to the Henley Beach motor rail ticket having been clipped; whereas concensus amongst officialdom plus Gerry Feltus seems to be of the contrary view.
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so the police report and inquest claim that the train ticket was unused was false and what the newspaper report said is fact?
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According to newspapers courtesy of Tbt/Barry Traish, Det. Sgt. H. Strangway and PCC J. Sutherland made necessary inquiries with both Doug Townsend of Adelaide ticket office plus the city bus authorities to confirm fare times of purchase. This would likely have been day one as Harry & Scan were both otherwise occupied on a four day court hearing after that. This would be seem vindicated by double star Doug’s recall of selling the fare between 6.15am and midday on 30 November; So sayeth The Adelaide Truth scandal sheet on page one 18 December 1948.
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Good job that …. Excuse me for a minute would you, I have to clean my shoe of something I trod in,
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Shabby #
There is a difference between unclipped and unused tickets but in order to set out the best case for each, one must be prepared to research past discussions on the HB ticket threads. There is a chapter in Feltus’ Unknown Man treatise covering the subject in entirety from a SA rail network guru. Gerry’s little mate Tiny’ explains the intricacies regarding old platform 9 right of access to the gated platform area plus how ticket clipping and preboard inspection prevented attempt at fare evasion. Milongal and I were equally unimpressed.
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thanks John I’ve read it. Did you see my posts about horses being run at Morphettville on the Tuesday? Seemed like the place to be to get a heads up on upcoming race performance?
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Just horse trainers early morning on the Tuesday. They’re always there
Not a race meet
Gone by the time SM boarded that bus
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Help me here John , I’m new to this but re reading the interview with Tiny he says that there is no way anyone could get onto the train platform without having their ticket validated as it would be ” clipped”. My theory is if the ticket was not clipped then it wasn’t used? This is also stated in the police report and inquest report that the train ticket was unused. Most newspapers also say he most likely missed the train as the ticket was unused.
It makes sense that he bought a train ticket, missed the train maybe while checking in his luggage then instead of hanging around for an hour for the next train decided to use the bus?
What is the difference between unclipped and unused?
what’s your theory on the two tickets?
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Shabby #
You’ll recall the two hoops training nags on the beach that day , one a lad and the other a full fledged jock with big race wins in Adelaide and Melbourne. It was he who noticed the body when galloping by at dawn and who on the return leg disturbed it to check for signs of life. There was also a very well known racing identity (who became a knight) on the beach that morning and it be notable that neither he nor the riders chose to hang about for arrival of first offender Constable Moss, sent for by swim buddy wealthy jeweller John Lyons.
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People exercised horses on the beach in Adelaide in those days. Some kept a horse in a stable in the backyard. They were big quarter acre blocks. They’re just horse people who happened to be there
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Shabby #
Far too many variables out there to give any sort of confident appraisal on the presence and real purpose of the two tickets.
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It’s a pity no US dollars were shown to be on him. That would be the clincher
Travels all the way from the US and doesn’t have a wallet or any money
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If it’d been SM’s plan to take the Henley Beach rail then we might consider that the non return ticket in his pocket could pass for a suicide note. From what I understand none of the four spurline stops to HP were manned and so buying a return ticket to town was out. A bus to Somerton must have been an option on finding out that that long delays due to coal shortage meant a 9.30am to 11.53am wait for the next service rather than just an hour. Timing and means for the date with destiny, may have meant more to SM than the actual venue for all we knows; Adelaide beaches being much the same, long on sand but short on decent surf..so why should he care.
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A long time ago, questions were asked as to why wasn’t he identified as a bus passenger by fellow travellers? But, if ‘Joe Public’ only had the printed photos, as seen in the newspapers, and these photos were ‘re-constructured’ there is little wonder nobody travelling that day came forward with a positive siting. He may have had a bus ticket for Glenelg, but what if he got off the bus before it arrived in Glenelg?
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I use the bus often and live in a small country town with not alot of people so most journeys there are maybe 6 people on the bus, I couldn’t tell you who was on with me yesterday as I paid no attention, some travels were locals ive seen before , some werent but i wouldnt be able to recall what they looked like if shown a photo.I think the only time someone would remember S.M is if he stood out in some way therefore drawing attention to himself. If it was the norm for men to wear hats people may have remembered a hat less man getting on the bus but if he got on wearing a hat, carrying his coat and got off at his destination I don’t think its strange that no one recalled seeing him on the bus.
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No one in need Indeed, indeed #
Plenty of room for a fair stash of dead presidents in the easy access Stamina elasto-strap gusset lining that came to light initially on CM some years back.
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There’s a massive 30km stretch of beach from Seacliff to North Haven
But he’s found right in front of the Crippled Children’s Home which is a fair way from where he got off the bus at Glenelg
Doesn’t know his way around Adelaide but decides to plonk himself on Jess’s doorstep (so to speak) and top himself
Why not hide yourself in the sand dunes and top yourself and become a meal for the birds and wild animals. You don’t want anyone to know who you are or find you. You ripped the tags off all of your clothes, threw away your wallet, carried no ID, or clues as to who you are.
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Clive/No One #
What bus to Glenelg? Inquest evidence confirmed the the 7d ticket stub was for an alternating service to St. Leonards and Somerton Beach and didn’t go into Glenelg. Seems he knew his way around the beach suburbs well enough don’t you think?
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St Leonards was an area now known as Glenelg North. Was he due to meet someone in St Leonards, if so, no need to walk around Glenelg. And that could be a reason why no one remembered him in Glenelg?
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90A Moseley St is Glenelg, not St Leonards
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St Leonards is Glenelg
It’s the old name for Glenelg North on the north side of Anzac Highway. (What was St Leonards Hotel 631 Anzac Highway Glenelg on the north side is now Watermark Glenelg)
Somerton is a lot further south
Graymore (which was up the north end of the Patawalonga River) via St Leonards (Glenelg) was bus service 26. Turned right into West Beach Road at Keswick bridge (later called Richmond Road because of the confusion it caused when people thought West Beach Rd would take them to the beach only to find Adelaide Airport was there). Turned left into South Road, turned right back on to Anzac Highway and then turned down Stonehouse Ave and left into Morphett Rd. It doesn’t actually go past Morphettville Racecourse. It turns right into Anzac Highway to continue to Glenelg (St Leonards). It certainly did go to Glenelg because the bus stops are on the left side of Anzac Highway going west which is Glenelg before it turns right into St Leonards
Somerton was bus service 23. Goes straight down Anzac Highway to Glenelg then turns left into Brighton Road down to Somerton. It crosses Jetty Road Glenelg and he could have walked down Jetty Road
So he didn’t take a St Leonards bus to go to Morphettville Racecourse because it doesn’t go straight past
and taking a St Leonards bus to Glenelg means he really doesn’t know his way around
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Shabby #
This was the 1948 bus route from Helmsdale to within a short walk of Somerton beach and Alvington steps. From Anzac Hwy. heading west, SM’s bus would likely have made a left turn at Gordon St. Glenelg East which, after crossing Jetty Rd. became Partridge St. Glenelg then Scarborough St. New Glenelg and a mile or so on, Whyte St. Somerton Park where it turned right. The journey terminated at Tarlton St. (phone box) near Miller Park & Somerton Sailing Club (best fish’n potato gems on the coast). The return journey to town which be of no concern to our man followed Tarlton St. north through to Broadway thence via Partridge (or Brighton Rd.) to Anzac Hwy. and back to start. The directions came from the horses mouth, someone who drove the route a million times at least, so Don’t listen to rumours Shabs
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Gordon Street is in Glenelg and that was one of the bus routes I know for sure.
Somerton via Gordon Street
Moseley St is the continuation of Tarlton St after the dogleg in the road heading north. Are you saying he took the Gordon St bus and alighted out the front of Jess’s at 90A Moseley St ?
But wasn’t it said that SM took a St Leonards bus ?
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No one left to trust #
SM’s bus travelled south along Gordon Street, Partridge then Scarborough like I said. Not via Moseley the present bus route with the Thomson place at 90a near the elbow at Tarlton Street. Inquest witness Hall likely gave St. Leonards destination so as to syncronise with the missed 10.45am train to Henley Beach, not knowing it had been cancelled. In a follow-up answer to a question from the Coroner, Hall then brought up the Somerton Beach alternate route possibility.
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Plausible. How do we know he didn’t stay on the bus at the terminus and then get off at 90A Moseley on the return leg
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No One…will ever know but quite plausible I confess.
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Then again there were five other well known alternate SM case addresses along the bus route Jerry might have had in mind including the Whyte St. residence of Jack Lyons the jeweller who might well have been a potential buyer for uncut saphires or opals secreted in his spare socks. Want the other four names addresses and placement?
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Put that on hold for a while
I seldom travel across to the north side of Adelaide but going out there this morning I saw something interesting
Century Motors is still there at 32 Main North Prospect. You can get a street view on Google Earth
On Facebook is says established 1950
That’s not Prosper and Jess running it now of course but it is still trading under that name which they created
I don’t know the family but I think they were a very hard working business couple. Prosper was a go-getter and to a lot of women that’s a magnet. That’s what she saw in him when they were very young and she wanted him and got him
The thing that intrigues me is where that large sum of money came from for their business start-up. Legit I’d say. Was it for govt services they provided
The News Adelaide 17 Dec 1951 p.18 New SA Firms – Century Motors Ltd £25,000 PM Thomson and Mrs JE Thomson
The newspapers are littered with their advertisements of cars for sale. Century Motors. Century Trading. 217 Hanson Street Adelaide (near South Tce), Grenfell St Adelaide. Owned and operated by Geo Thomson, Ex 1st Armored Div Corp Workshops, 2nd AIF. Advertiser 26 April 1954 p.12
217 Hanson Street Adelaide was across the road and down a bit from our service station. 12 Hanson Street Adelaide was their showroom a bit further north up the road near Wakefield St. Hanson Street is now Pulteney St from August 1967. Cheeky Greek Street Food is now in the building where Thomsons had their showroom for Century Motors at 12 Hanson St
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On 20 Jan 1951, in “The Advertiser”, Thomson was looking for a 12 month hse rental. using Box 953H GPO, Adelaide
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Why George instead of Prosper? (Possibly because certain individuals in Adelaide had long memories i.e. Daphne etc). I guess you have to smile when his ‘war record’ is shown, nothing like promoting yourself to the good burghers of Adelaide.
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Maybe he got tired of people asking him, what sort of name is Prosper, and he retreated from it. Dealing with the public in business, you don’t want to keep answering that question dozens of times a day. She probably told him, just call yourself George. After King George VI for strength. Who knows.
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Everyone knows #
George inplace of Prosper and the £25000 for Century motors has come up so often at to be known to all & sundry; includes lesser known proximity of the Kallin family owned garage in Hanson St. which we covered elsewhere from memory. I hoped we could have moved on.
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No One:
25K Pound in 1951 was a fortune, I can’t imagine Prosper/George making that amount of money since the end of WW2, even with his many ‘schemes and deals’. So, where did that amount of money come from? Perhaps he had interstate associates with large amounts of money and,’questionable’ motives?
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When someone knows something big and the govt wants to keep the lid on it, it comes down to paying them voluntary hush money and part of it is paying them for the risk of doing something dangerous for the govt. Boxall said so – she had great courage, tremendous courage
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“Great courage, tremendous courage”. If that was the case, then she was doing something more than just being a nurse? She wasn’t working in a war zone, so, what’s with the “courage” label? Was Boxall really talking about Jessie or, was it someone else?
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When Boxall was found to be connected to the Somerton Body case he wrote that when he arrived home after being interviewed by several police at the depo and accompanied by them back to his home to view the Rubaiyat, perhaps he imagined her, a young woman having to put up with the same type of official pressures, perhaps more so.
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Looks likes like we’re done with the train ticket and also the Webb distraction, unless I’m not mistaken. Welcome back in from the quagmire that being the case, you’re sure to find a better path with Somerton Man. Just hope it’s not too late to recover lost pride.
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