Two Amys and Two Charlies.
We aren’t disputing the work done by Colleen Fitzpatrick in identifying the Somerton Man as being Charles Carl Webb however what we are having some difficulty with is both Derek Abbott and Stuart Webb identifying him as the blonde-haired man in the photo below (top row right).
Some time ago I had a very cordial text conversation with Stuart Webb where he insisted that the lady he had tagged as Amy in the group photo (2nd from left front row below) was Amy Sarah Harriet Tomkinson who was born in 1895 and died on June 2nd 1929 “after a long illness”.
Died aged 34 in June of the same year the photo was taken and after a long illness.
Her Daughter Doris Amy Webb (b. 1919) would have been 10 years old at the time ..
and ..
Richard Charles Webb (b.1917) – would have been 12.
The view here is that the photograph was taken in about 1939* when Richard Charles Webb was aged 22 and Doris Amy Webb was aged 20, and that both of them appear in the above photo. In other words both individuals in the photo have been incorrectly tagged. Amy Sarah is Doris Amy and Carl Charlie is Richard Charles.
Of course when I put this to Stuart he good-naturedly said good luck with your theory but you are fearfully wrong, going on to say he had many more photos of Amy Sarah Harriet Tomkinson and was certain of his identification. However soon after we lost contact and I received no reply when I asked if he could share these photographs, which was a pity.
Amy’s mother .. age unknown, possibly a teenager and not dissimilar to Amy in the group photograph. (thanks shabs)
Shabs reckons about 1933, John Sanders 1935/36
The Somerton Man .. 
only problem with 1939 is Norma would be 14. But 1933 has Norma 8 by her birth year but looking 7 due to being born so late in 1925, November. Charlie up the back at 15 and like any 15 year old being cheeky and tapping the oldies on the head. Doris Amy 14, Freda 37, Daniel Martin 34 and Doris Martin 31.
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add in Roy 29, Richard 67 and Eliza at 63 and 1933 is a good fit . Looking at the group photo the young Charlie and Eliza don’t look like mother and son with a 35 year age either.
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Pete, Your timeline would seem to be the correct fit. How was Stuart so sure that the photo was taken in June 1929?
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Stuart has dated the photo from Amy’s death claiming that it must be before she died on the 2nd of June 1929. The spanner in the works is Norma also confirmed by Stuart born November 1925. According to news reports from the day Amy had been unwell for a considerable time before she died. As we move the photo date backwards to fit in with Amy being well enough to attend a family gathering then Normas estimated age has to be adjusted and we end up with a three year old who looks way older in the photo.
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Cannot argue with that .. so it’s another indication Stuart’s reasoning is incorrect.
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Short of anything to add folks. Said it all almost weird for weird back at the start of the Stuart Webb Alice in blunderland fantasy pagent and supported by Nick Pelling and his invited Facebook collective. Only difference being my middle of the road year of 1935/6 that in the know Jo thought she might agree with until advised to conform or else..Anyone have views on Carl Webb’s jilted lover H. H. Hickey Taylor’s presence in the pic, with which we are being treated to yet another round.
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Good question Clive but what strikes me as being incongruous is that the lady tagged as Amy died from a long illness on June 2, 1929, the same year the photo was taken yet she appears to be the picture of health.
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A long illness? Could it have been TB?
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It was prevalent at the time.
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Amy (pictured)is the mother died 1929
Doris Amy is her daughter with Russell born 1919
the three photos I emailed are all Amy shared by Stuart on Derek’s FB group
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I can’t find any photos of the daughter Doris Amy to compare with the group photo.
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“We aren’t disputing the work done by Colleen Fitzpatrick in identifying the Somerton Man as being Charles Carl Webb“
You should be
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Why?
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Have you established that the man on the beach is Carl Webb ?
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No, I haven’t, Dr Colleen Fitzpatrick, one of world’s foremost forensic genealogists has. Next question?
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Where is the link that proves Carl Webb was on the beach ?
She didn’t establish that and nobody has yet
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Fitzpatrick established a DNA link to the Webb family. She had found that of all the men in the family who would have been the approximate age of the Somerton Man only Charles Carl had no recorded death certificate after examining about 4,000 relevant DNA records. Then the ID was confirmed when it was established that the articles of clothing and the laundry bag labelled Keane in all probability belonged to to Jack Keane, the son of Carl’s brother in law and a WW2 casualty. It is noted that all his clothing and possessions were sent home to Australia.
Knowledge of these basic facts is essential in understanding the complications of the mystery. I hope this helps.
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Nobody’s trying to point score
Only establish the facts in an exchange of views with others
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other problem I have is the big blond fella up the back is apparently Russell, 38 year old in 1929, sitting miles away from his very unwell wife. Not matching his police report years earlier of 5 foot 3 inches, medium build, brown hair, round features, inclined to be small.
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Per NAA there is a Russell Webb DOB: 01/02/1900 5’11.5″ Grazier/Farmer.
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Those three in the back row are kneeling, yes?
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In all fareness to us nay sayers Colleen ‘Patsy’ Fitzpatrick’s alumni be in Physics with a Ph.D to show for it and that’s fine. Far as the DNA stuff goes, theyr’e tags that she has adopted of her own self and come with no academic tickets as such. Her next big blunder after giving a false positive to SM having been Robin Thomson’s dad based on zero evidence, be to claim that the T Keane tie in the suitcase was the determining factor in proving that missing Carl Webb therefore must be Somerton Man. I wouldn’t be pushing that case too hard after all we have other fish to fry.
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not sure, Roy looks like he’s resting on something, the second row seems to he still on the grass but a knoll of some sort, Grandpa has his knees up and resting his arms on them. To me it looks like the sloped ground around a sport oval type of thing. Russell’s upper body seems like he could be resting his arms on one knee while trying to all fit in the photo.
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Barramundi grilled, not fried, with a side dish of sun-dried tomatoes covered with Pandano cheese and Kalamata olives, plus a crusty French loaf ..
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You wouldn’t believe how close that be to my standard fare, cooked to perfection with my own messy hands. Must be sea barra, and don’t be mean with the sundries or a few drops of sandyman special sauce.
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I’m thinking XO sauce.. a deeply satisfying dark, fecund and mysterious liquid known to reduce men and women of normal tastes to become rabid animals about the dinner table … I’ve been there, it’s ugly. They slaver.
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I think someone can use a back rub! All that researching tires a man!
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Mr microcode at it again
Not one message has ever been shown to exist
and never will be
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You have to admire GC for his perseverance.. however as we all know theories such as his need to be independently confirmed .. one man’s word is not enough.
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GC suggested that the name Menzies was part of the code solution, with eplicit reference to PM RGM’s likely involvement with the SM spy case. That was until I told him the awful truth that Pig Iron Bob wasn’t even PM at the time, so now he seems to have a new role for ‘Ming the Merciless’ in the scheme. All to be concealed in due course at GC’s discretion..like never
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I have to say, Shabs was the first to question the authenticity of nearly everything about that family photo .. like who was really who and how old they really were .. I’m just riding on her coat tails .. however I have to say, what is it with this endless discussion on CM about matters only faintly relevant to the advancement of case substance .. ?
Cramer pursues his micro-writing obsession, Pelling apparently couldn’t give a stuff, DA Facebook is no longer relevant and SAPOL has only weeks to go to announce their findings in ‘early’ 2024.
And of Stuart Webb, not a whisper… must be a windsurfer thing, real surfers rise to a challenging occasion with a vengeance.
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Perhaps Stuart Webb has dropped a clanger with his interpretation of who is who on the photograph. He now realizes that fact, so, he’s gone with the wind?
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For someone so personally involved it is surprising he has decided to let the challenges of his recollections go unanswered.
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As for “only faintly relevant”, don’t connect with “advancement of case substance” at all by my reckonning but then, what would I know about relevance eh?
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There’s only one mouse in this kitchen John Sanders, and not many of us are trying to stamp it down, if you know what I mean.
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As for BD’s former navy captain Stuart Webb, I agree that his being quiet as a mouse for a year be most peculiar; and even more so in that nobody from his oen FB camp has said a word on his whereabouts or absentia.
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The Carl Webb profile doesn’t fit the evidence
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Might I suggest that Pat o rato be the mouse in the kitchen and that I’ve been trying my level best to stamp the pest down since it jumped the boat from Rio same time SM imposter Carl Webb showed up.
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so the turd hit the fan!! Where to we go from here?
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