Flogging a Dead Horse
David Morgan might well be right, the discussion about the relative (pun intended) heights in the family photo of Grandpa, Charlie, Grandma and Roy has been done and dusted long ago, but even so a question lingers, intrudes on sleep, something just isn’t quite right there, you know?
Imagine if you will that the image below didn’t have familial labels as identifiers but had their relative heights inscribed there instead. I’d do it myself but aren’t that smart about software.
But if I was able to I’d then pass it around the dinner table and see if a dead horse could be flogged back into life.
Grandpa is 5’6″ / 7″ (1913 Gazette entry aged 20)
Grandma unknown.
Charlie is 5’11” (as per autopsy record?)
Roy is 5’8″ (as per war record).
Header pic by Marc Cortez 2012
The Somerton Man .. 
Charlie’s right hand, on Grandad’s right shoulder. Is that a ring on one of his fingers? One of his fingers seems lighter than the rest of his visible hand.
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Noticed that too, looks like a band aid.
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He also looks older in this image than in the group shot one taken the same day. That and the fact that his hands don’t appear overally large leads me back to my belief that its nephew Charlie in the photo.
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Shabs! Someone told me you went mad and the coppers shot you …
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I wish lol, too busy teaching year 8 as a private tutor for any fun SM investigations 🔎
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Shabby, show a student this photo and ask them what they notice. You know what they say “Out of the mouths of children….’
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my 2 grandkids live with me during the school week and I have a constant flow of kids through the house many of which have become interested in the S.M. They can all see inconsistencies in the photos and the current explanations, the age of Norma is one they argue over lol. All the 7 year olds are ” no way she’s 4!”
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and then you pop nephew Charlie’s war height in of 5’9, get him to take half a step backward to stand behind the others and hey presto, it fits!
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How many steps back would it take for Charlie to lose the 4 inches of height he has over the older man?
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Roy’s body seems to be turned to his right and his head is inclined. The impression I get is, if Roy was standing more upright he would look taller?
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Shabs, remind me, she’s the little girl in the front row hiding her head, right? Who said she was 4?
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Norma Martin was born 11th November 1925. Amy died 2nd June 1929 after a long illness. If the group photo was taken one month before Amy died in May 1929 then Norma is 3 year and six months old. Remembering that kids were smaller years back. Even by today’s standards she doesn’t look 3 and a half to me and I’m with kids all day every day. Was a kindy teacher for 15 years. I’d put her at 7ish. Remembering that the news articles read that Amy had been unwell for a considerable time, she appears very well if it’s her in the image one month before she died.
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I have an uneasy feeling about what might be a relationship between Stuart Webb and Derek Abbott.
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A book deal?
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if they publish the family photo album I’m first in line.
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Stuart is a windsurfer … that, to some is evidence of a weakness of character.
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Agreed. Stuey’s also a computer whiz and AI convert no doubt. Seems he was sailing with a fair breeze when he started out but, it’s been hard to get any response out of him lately for some reason.
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Perhaps DA’s taken the wind out of his sails?
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There’s some hassle over a cd cover and the stakes are high.
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I think if Stuart had correctly identified Norma first instead of thinking it read Norman Martin on the back of the photo he would have estimated her age to be 7 ish and therefore estimated the group photo to be from 1933. When Stuart thought it was Gwen as a child he did estimate the child to be 7. Looking at the image of Charlie in the group photo and matching his name to the smaller photo he would have then realised it’s not an image of a 28 year old Charlie but more likely to be the 15 year old Charlie nephew of Carl Webb. I think now the image has gone all around the world of ” this is Charlie Webb” it’s too hard to say, ” whoops , made a mistake, two Charlie Webb’s in the one family”.
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that’s what’s my problem with this case is! I mean don’t they have other relatives with pictures as well? They’ve only released those 2 pictures, I bet there is other photos of Carl waiting to be dust offed In their attic somewhere! It’s seems to be the holy grail if they release them to the public.
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Adding some more fuel to the barbeque, in the other family photo Roy was shorter …
Are you sure you didn’t see the hair of that horse moving in the wind? That doesnt count 🙂
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Let’s see the real photo in the album
I’d say the photo had 3 people in it when taken
It has been photo shopped to put Charlie in it
The shadows and other markers are the give-away.
Charlie the golden boy, chummy close with the old folks. Such a fine chap.
Would you regard this as deception and what would the motive be and who is behind it
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I wonder if Charlie’s photo replaced someone else?
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these a video kicking around, I think its from Australian Story, Pete or John will know for sure, it’s an interview with Stuart about the S.M mystery. He shows the album full of photos, I took some screen grabs. It shows the picnic photo, one of granie and pa by themselves infront of a hanger or shed of some sort. The 4 person image is in the album with ” Webb ” written in the top corner and the names above each person but the TV and news articles have edited the image colouring Charlie red and bringing the writing down closer to each person. If you pause the video there is an image of a guy infront of a car with ” Russell” hand written underneath. To me it looks nothing like the image from the group shot that Stuart says is Russell. John found a police description of Russell that also doesn’t match the group photo. Pete I’m computer stupid and don’t know if I can add images here?
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emailed you.
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Ta
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Peteb #
Reckon such a comfy relationship only involves Stuart & Derek? I beg to disagree just take a long hard look at what’s being going down elsewhere since the Webb ID scam broke? What with the welcomed secondment to CM by a Facebook inspired coven of self serving, high fiving misandristic punt kickers. No not on your sweet ‘neddy’ it don’t.
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JohnS .. I reckon Grannie is about three to four inches shorter than grandad, so how far back would he have to stand to appear to be about the same height as her?
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I can’t seem to find me old horizontal triagulator. I do seem to recall that a simple camera obscura lens aimed at the centre of a seen (scene) mass does not compensate height difference at short distance where like forms are concerned. In other words no mucking eyed deer.
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I’m not inclined to persuade or dissuade anyone about this being Chuckles, but my view since I first saw this pic was that the sun was higher in the sky when Charlie was shot than when Granny and Roy were shot. Then lower than all when Gramps was shot.The angle of the shadow on Gramp’s right shoulder doesn’t match Charley’s collar and neither match the shadows on Granny and Roy. I feel Granny and Roy were together but then Charlie was stitched in then Gramps got the same later treatment.
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Maybe ‘coupla days’ a week at most none of this horse shit will be of concern to us any longer all things, being equal, besides I along with a few astute punters agree that goodtime Charlie of the offending photograph be an in house desktop creation and a pretty poor job at that.
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Point being that Stuart Webb may have got a couple of dates and faces wrong and ‘Charlie’ Webb who looks a lot like Charles Richard Webb is in fact ‘Charlie’ Richard Webb.
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… and an errie silence becomes apparent as those whose comments have been previously welcomed are now breathlessly silent.
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Not only was Stuart Webb out by a decade in his 1925 dating, he also seems to have missed more than a couple of faces in the crowd eg., his uncle Norman aged 14 sprawled out on the grass at front which be a no brainer, right Shabs?
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definitely!
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I’ve been looking for an image of Doris Amy as I believe it is her in the group photo, not Amy. Stuart is dating the photo in relation to Amy’s death but if it’s her look-a -like daugher then we aren’t locked between Normas age and Amy’s death date. The kids went from a school in Birchip to East Ringwood then onto a convent after Amy’s death but ive had no luck with school photos.
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That has to be the key … if it can be proved then the ‘other’ Charlie is the blonde in photos. A look at that photo album Stuart was leafing through might be enlightening.
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Doris Amy Tomkison had three kids including a son Paul Thomas. A Paul Thomas Tomkinson 1942/2021 was a big time Victorian property developer who became Lord Mayor of Bendigo, and he was decidedly blond (with or without an e) if that helps Shabs.
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thanks John 😊, I found a good write up on her son Paul and photo online but nothing from Doris Amy’s era unfortunately 😕 Funeral notices reference her as Dorrie so I tried looking using that too with no luck.
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I need to say this. I have no doubt of Stuart’s integrity at all, or if the photo is genuine, which can clearly be seen in the photoalbum in the video of the documentary as shown by him. He and his sister come across as very decent people and it is very admirable for them to have shared their DNA and privacy to the public.
Like I mentioned earlier, the difference in heights can partially be explained by a lower perspective of the photographer, and by people standing behind eachother. Notice Roy and grandma also standing slightly before grandpa with Roy somewhat bending towards the camera.
What can be noticed is that family, very understandably, is very engaged with anyone who can provide information or photo’s on Carl W. At the moment, this involves DA and the known pictures. However to my opinion it will be rare, or even non-existant, to find any pictures of Carl W. as an adult.
Recently another picture on a CD cover turned up on which Carl W. is claimed to be. The figure is very blurry though and was digitally modified to show similarities with Carl W. One can seriously wonder if this a healthy development. Family has since reacted very defensive and emotional to criticism on this claim on FB/FS.
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The shadows don’t lie
The shadow on Charlie’s shirt collar is at a different angle to the other three. That just isn’t possible
The photo is a fake
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Calypso: by my reckoning such an opinion on Stuart’s integrity, coming from someone that doesn’t know him, based on a short rehearsed and poorly edited video be considered speculation. I might add that coming from a pseudenym and not a named person, ie. your good self, that be not much to go by. Sorry.
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John haha well he did make a good first impression. The beach one I mean;
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Calypso, John has a good point. With regard to Stuart’s insistence that Amy as pictured died in 1925(?) and Shab’s opinion that the pic in the group shot is of her look-alike daughter and adding that Stuart saying he had ‘loads’ of other photos to prove him right, without bothering to produce any .. a man could only wonder.
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Besides, pseudonym or not, how can one ever be sure of what a person .states?
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Calypso … Nobody can, but places like this enable the discussion necessary in order to attempt to make sense of Australia’s ‘most profound mystery’ .. hiding your identity does little to enforce the validity of your views.. reasonable as they may be.
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Fine. I’ll leave.
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Your choice…
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Bye Cyclopso; best you get that one eye seen to and work on your bad attitude some.
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Funny thing about letting Calypso go Pete, is that you and she are the only staunch supporters of the Webb=SM game left in the running. You must both surely be wondering by now what became of the big league players Abbott and Pelling. Seems Derek’s on an extended holiday, Nick’s dumped his all Charly’s Angels and back where he started out with the still undecided archaic Czech language Voynich boogy man on CM prime time.
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Richard is Charlie and someone’s got their dates wrong .. but I’m not liking the odds of winning that race.
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I’m not doubting that Dick = Charlie for a NY minute Peteb, but what’s the point if the whole Carl Webb fiasco’s about to blow up in our blond haired surfer boy’s baggy boardies .. Writing’s on the SM wall in case you hadn’t picked up on the vibes.
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Guess we might now expect every man (person) and his (her) Horse (mare) to chime in and try to top Shabby’s fine decryption effort. Scenes of Dome’s CM ROK Code breaking in it’s (horses S&M’s eat it) hay day.
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