Charlie and Jessica.
We’re going on the expectation that Webb will be confirmed as being the Somerton Man early next year when the coroner receives his report from SAPOL and SA Forensics.
That being the case we can only wonder what the relationship between the two of them was based on.
…
Love? So what if it was, he’d deserted his wife and she had an illegitimate child and was living with a married man. Not a lot of sensitivity shown there.
Criminal association? He was unknown to the police nationwide and she was a nurse.
Shared interest? He was a known doper and instrument maker, what’s to share, dope aside?
Religious beliefs? He was not circumcised, she turned to Judaism later in life.
Espionage? Can of known worms, avoid.
Sworn to silence? She maybe. Him we”ll never know. And for why?
Was she afraid of him? Could be but he was dead, what could happen?
She was his source? He was addicted to goofballs, she worked where there was plenty.
Connection to the police? Hard to ignore given their unprofessional investigation.
Exit me scratching head.
The Somerton Man .. 
“Unknown to the police nationwide” and “an instrument maker”, possibly this would make him an asset for Prosper and his ‘dodgy’ deals? Jessie kept her head down, as she knew if the police kept sniffing around, pointers would lead to Prosper. And, with her relying on him for a roof over her head, and a young child to support/care, and even more, she was not married, shock, horror!
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Jessica being of devout Jewish faith as an adult, would not have let an uncircumcised man like Jerry Somerton anywhere near her in private. As an aside Doff in her no fault Webb v Webb divorce petition, when discussing last sexual relations with Charlie never said nothing about no foreskin…from memory.
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The photograph of SM was supposedly featured in newspapers around Australia.
Are we to believe that SM was Webb…but not one person who knew Webb recognised him from that photo?
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I can see it now! Jimmy Jack Webb scanning through the newspaper looks at SM photo,shrugs his shoulder “ he looks familiar “ turns the next page! I think that’s what happend.
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I think not enough police attention was given to Prosper, I’ve got him advertising his taxi service specialising in long distance travel and race meetings, I think SM was on his way to Morphettville Race track when he found the bus went right past the door so decided to bus instead of train. Jessica’s panic on seeing the body would be completely expected if her boyfriend had brought him to her home. Prosper was already in trouble in the courts so she may have known he wasn’t 100% honest. Prosper purchased a gun the week of the inquest which makes me think there may have been links to organised crime. I think SM was involved in horse ringing/ doping. Extended family were involved in horse racing, grass seeds in his clothing, huge doping scandals and inquiry going on over the same time frame. His sister believed he was heading to WA so a good chance he thought he was coming into some money, bribe, hush money, planned to meet someone at the race track and hire Prosper to drive him out of state but met with foul play. Maybe this was why no one ” reconised” him, my little country town, ( Innisfail, in flood at the moment thanks to cyclone Jasper) had major dramas in the ’30s with Italian Black Hand gangs shooting people in the main street but no one saw a thing cause if you did you were next on their list.
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Peterbowes: How about all of the above if that’s possible?
Shabby: You’ll need intro. to Prosper’s shady pals; Try PROV for his 1936 marriage witness (Dr.) H.R. Burch, and follow through from ’22 all states, NZ and Stateside re standover merchants.
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JohnS … we’re all a bunch of storytellers, good at linking details too like Shabs here and before her dude with his tools/ car stealing theory. I was convinced he was a ballet dancer, even finding a photo of a couple of a foreign touring party of dancers cavorting on Bungan Beach in the 40’s wearing sluggos and shirts.
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Will do John, not much down time at the moment, cyclone did a huge number on us up here, floodwaters half way up my daughters house, roads completely smashed, it’s crazy but had an hour to chill and enjoy SM drama for a bit 🙂
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Some interesting thoughts here (other than I would categorically not have planned to get to Morphetville via the Henley train). But what if he was originally going to Cheltenham Racecourse – either because the races were on, or because he *thought* that’s where the races were on.
Shiny shoes despite “walking around all day” – The Racetrack would definitely be a place where you’d stand (or even sit) around all day rather than walking. Maybe more to the point, you dress up a little bit, and even if one of your mate ends up spilling beer on your shoes you probably give them a quick clean at some stage – especially if you’re hanging around or meeting shiny shoe types.
Maybe it even helps explain the lack of a hat. If he’s carked it with a group of people at the races, who’s gonna remember to grab his hat? And any one of them would happily take his wallet no doubt.
With Prospers long-distance (Melbourne and Broken Hill I think he advertises specifically) you might be able to tie the Prizinski shenanigans into the mix – maybe he was holding onto some stuff for him and expected to be travelling to Broken Hill for races afterwards – but when he found out/realised something had happened he thought he’d have to get rid of stuff lest he become a suspect.
Last5 of all, how good are toxicology reports? Presumably they look for specific things not generically everything that’s possible. So what if he was poisoned by something veterinarian – something intended for animals but not good for people…but something that you wouldn’t find unless you’re looking for it. But Time of Death migth still be a problem in this scenario.
It’s certainly an interesting direction to scratch in – but I think others have scratched quite thoroughly along those lines without getting anywhere very interesting.
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Perhaps he was at the races and his drink was spiked, after all, who would pay attention to two or three men, amongst the crowds, making their way to the carpark, one of them looking slightly worse for wear? As for the Prizinski case, surely it can’t be a coincidence that a pile of clothes are found on the same beach, just a couple of days before 3oth November? The story of the young fellow, walking all the way to Port Noarlunga just to find a car to steal is too hard to believe. What happened to the pile of clothes, put into an unlocked suitcase at the Adelaide Railway Station?
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It is a little interesting that the Advertiser has an advert for a “bagman” on 30Nov and 1Dec.
Wording similar in both ads:
EXPERIENCED bagman requires
II work, races, trots, or both. Reply
Box L 307, Advertiser. —
The only other time bagman (seems to) appear in the Advertiser that year is in May when someone is offering their services (in 1947 there’s a lot more ads (but a quick glance suggests most of these are Job Wanted not Job Available.
Not quite sure how that would fit in – but it just seemed interesting.
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Suicide, murder or natural death ?
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Shabby: Your line of thinking about Prosper is interesting. There may have been two sides to Prosper, running his Prestige Motors business in the city and, another at Moseley St. For some reason, as far as we know, the police only talked to Jessie-why not Prosper, after all he already had a police record. Two people living at the same house, sharing the same telephone number-yet only one interviewed? Possibly, the police were advised “it was not in the public interest to interview Prosper” as he had ‘friends’ in high places?
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The horse racing thing is interesting, the Governor of South Australia had his horse running at Morphettville the day SM was in the area. Huge doping scandals plus one being run out of banks, I’ve read the second phone number in the poetry book was of a bank. I’m thinking murder for sure, silenced if he was going to talk about what he knew re doping scandal or payback for a dodgy job done on one of the jobs or he tried to blackmail someone? To me it seems that he had plans to leave Victoria but wasn’t homeless , recent haircut, new shoes, new suitcase, high standard of personal grooming leads me to rule out suicide. I don’t think natural causes from the autopsy. I’d bet he was injected with something used to dope racehorses or offered drug laced cigarettes which could explain the two types found on him.
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And the racecourse at Morphettville isn’t too far away from Glenelg either. Perhaps he had the ‘dirt’ on certain members of the racing fraternity, members who wanted him dead at any price.
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And the bus went right past the race track but the train didn’t, easy to imagine him planning to train then realising that the bus was a better option. Other point against suicide is why pay to check in luggage at the station if you are planning to kill yourself? Easier to just dump it but if he was planning to continue on his journey and collect it at a later date then it makes more sense.
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Yeah Peteb; I remember well the aerial shots over Bungan beach. How Leon Woizikowski was able to catch Lydia Sokolova on the fly and not lose his grip on her Y bone on landing has got me.
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You’ve all allowed yourselves to be convinced it’s Carl Webb
Too afraid you might be wrong if you say it isn’t
There’s a mountain of evidence that says it isn’t
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No, not at all, if it’s not Carl Webb, then it’s not Carl Webb. I’m sure if this is the verdict, then another drawing board beckons.
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Coincidental very sad news to-day in that former Queensland & Australia rugby league great of a decade ago Carl Webb, died from effects of MND.
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Though Prosper seems a dodgy character, would he kill someone and then transport him a mere 400 metres from his house?
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Not to my way of thinking …
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Prosper had two avenues of professionsl back up for a sanction job in brother Gaston and his best man Harley Burch of Universal Collections Inc.
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No, I don’t think Prosper would have gone that far. But, I ‘m sure he knew individuals who would not think twice to do his bidding, especially, if the price was right.
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Peteb: Dr. Harley Burch was the titular head of US based international family crime syndicate that made it’s business from mail order scams etc., using strongarm tactics to defraud unwary dupes Australia wide.The Burch family of four brothers used cover of NY registered ‘Empire Art’ for it’s dealings and ‘Universal Collections’ as it’s standover arm with fake front offices in Sydney and Melbourne between 1922 & 1948 before getting going back to Dodge.
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Thanks JS, I never knew Thomson was involved with big time villains.
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Clive…if I were to pay someone to do a hit for me, I’d hope part of the fee would include disposing of the body a good few miles away from my house.
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Yes, so would I. But, in this case what if the person paid by Prosper decided to leave the body not too far away from Moseley St. To put the “frighteners” on Prosper for some reason, possibly blackmail?
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John S … Burch has been mentioned a few times here and there, what was he?
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He came to see Jess
She rejected him
He walked down to the beach nearby and suicided
That was the cover plan anyway
Until the Tamam Shud slip was found
which led to the Rubaiyat being found
which led to the coded message being found
You’ve got two groups in the authorities
Those who knew what was going down
Those who were kept in the dark and given disinformation
The profile of Carl Webb doesn’t fit
but may well suit as another cover plan
We will see
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Dr. H. R. Burch’s brother Elva Clarence’s two NAA files be worth a sqiz ie., occupation Delivery Man, salesman & Collector; with police stamps for Bundaberg, Toowoomba, C. Towers?, Lismore, Darlinghurst etc. note US Army service France 1917 (balloonist).
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I like the descriptions “Delivery Man” & “Collector”. Any ‘body’ we know?
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John, there’s plenty of good reasons to drop a pin at Charters Towers. East Coast hoteliers, daughter signals participants, military bigamy, more nurses, barmaids and waitresses than you can poke a baton at. And all dodgy as! And centre of the search pattern of R E Davis’s task.
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Jess is listed in the Adelaide telephone directory as a Sister
which says she was still working as a nursing professional
A Nursing Sister is at a higher level
Was she working at the Crippled Children’s Home
on the Esplanade at Somerton
Just around the corner from her home at Moseley St
and that is why they chose to live there
Maybe there is a staff list somewhere or was she a casual
Was she the lookout
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No One, A few years ago, I made enquiries re: names of staff at the CCH in the late 1940’s. It would be easier to break into Fort Knox, as the authorities holding the archives for the CCH simply refused to give any information about the staff. You could agree with them on one hand, then, on the other hand, if Jessie was working at the CCH, the authorities may have been told to keep information to themselves.
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Interesting
If she was working as a casual
and they needed her at any time
there’s her number in the phone book.
Just open the phone book on the desk and look her up. Thomson JE Sister X3239
She just walks around the corner when she is needed any time day or night
and the phone number is in her name not his
for that reason
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Prosper and Webb’s families both connected to crime figures. Two Melbourne men interviewed by the police said they were certain Webb once worked out of an illegal gambling den, and himself a gambler and barbiturate addict.
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I can’t see Jess taking any interest in an old man with half his teeth missing and looking like a street drunk if that dental chart has anything to do with this.
Prosper and Jess Thomson were successful business people in Adelaide. They were incorporated as Century Motors Ltd in 1951. The News Adelaide 17 Dec 1951 p.18.
They had several car yards in Adelaide and some before that.
176 Grenfell St, 215-217 Hanson St, 12 Hanson St (Hanson St is now Pulteney St). They also had Century Trading Co selling cars.
There is a photo of their home at Stanley Street Erindale (posh) in The News 15 May 1953 p.21.
They incorporated as Century Motors Ltd for 25,000 pounds. A lot of money. They went from rags to riches overnight. Where did the money come from.
Did they get paid to do a certain job.
Is that where the money came from.
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Yes, it makes u wonder where Prosper got the £25k from, only 3 years before, in 1948, he was selling anything he could in the local newspaper.
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See “The Advertiser” 15 Mar 1947 Page 19-“Partner for used car business…..active or silent…..money under own control…Thomson, Box 1009J
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Going off script, but would AI be any use trying to workout the Code letters? Just an idea.
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Ask PB
I think he might know what the code says already
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Jo posted a link to the code. ‘TWEED DISTRICT AMBULANCE’ And guess what? the ‘Danetta’ code fits as well. No need for AI.
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In 1952 my father rebuilt his service station
in Hanson St, Adelaide (city) at a cost of 5,000 pounds. It was a lot of money. He sold used and also new cars with a Triumph Dealership. Thomsons were just up the road at 12 Hanson St.
In the Adelaide Advertiser 1 Jan 1952 p.10 Thomsons advertised that their company Century Motors Ltd was the largest used car dealer in Adelaide.
They had incorporated as Century Motors Ltd with start up capital of 25,000 pounds five times the cost of my father’s rebuild. 25,000 pounds was an enormous sum of money. Cars on numerous lots across Adelaide and the value of the stock holding is that corporate capital
They had nothing then all of a sudden they are flush with money. 25,000 pounds. You don’t get that from selling a few old bangers in the backyard.
Where did the money come from
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Even if they copped an inheritance of a house it would only be £5,000 for a good one. They had £25,000.
It equates to some $millions today
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Dunno Peter, if he had a dealership it was most likely financially backed by the brand for little up front layout; If an ‘OK used car set up, than a shonky mob of backers could have used Prosper as a front man prop. So money may not have been such a worry and besides his old dad Ernie up the NSW central coast was about to cash in his chips, thus leaving his substancial estate to to guess who?
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It all goes back to Prosper. Who knows, with all his other scams maybe he dabbled in little SP bookmaking. Carl places a bet with him at Morphetville and lands a long shot, Prosper hasn’t got the funds to pay up, takes him back to Mosley st under the guise of getting him his cash and bumps him off.
Im still more Keane on the black market car racket being the connection. Its the tools , its the black market, its their mutual connection to the motor trade and gangsters , its Propsers dodgy nature its Mabo its the vibe.
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A couple of days before Webb was found dead Prosper was advertising that he had $50,000 (today’s equivalent) to pay for a particular car he wanted ..
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Could it be that the Tuesday in question was in fact a race day at Morphetville. I personally doubt it, though Shabby and the dud seem inclined to think it was from their latest posts; both can’t be wrong surely!
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50k in his sky rocket AND he was known to dud people over such deals.
Not sure if anyone has done a deep dive into the Daphne Page V P Thomson case but it spells out Prospers entire MO.
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Shabby #
Somerton handicap at Mooney Valley the previous Saturday had a pre race fancy Amritsar withdrawn due to doping. As for races at Morphetville on Somerton Man day nix, but the Port Adelaide cup was run at Gawler the day before. Dud 747 might need a new spin on his Prosper the SP v Carl the duped punter murder farce.
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They hit the jackpot financially
on 30 November 1948
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If race fixing is on your dance card, check out George Edward Phillips. (Yes Phillips) For a short time he was HQ’d in Kalgoorlie and Perth and 2x lifetime bans. “Jack of all trades, but as it turned out, master of none!” Including a fatal truck accident of unrelated parties.
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Any chance of that being the very same Jewish George Edward Philips of Anzac Hwy. Glandore that Allan H. be on about at CM. If we’re gonna pair the banned namesake hoop cum W.A. trainer with him, or by extension SM, first we’ll need to consider heights and of course foreskins, though age seems right on the money.
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JS: Silly notion I know, but the last three letters on the Code page, could be GAP or, George A. Phillips? Before you ask, I don’t know anyone by that name, just an idea about the three letters.
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Or Carl 😉
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Clive: George? had no middle name. how about GAB as in Grant Alfred Beamont which be a silly notion too but, the WR start of the first line also works for Wireless Radio as in George Phillip’s stated S & Mc. profession of Radio Dealer. Don’t like either and Alf Boxall for the last two letters of the code be a no go imho.
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Clive: you might check out the pics of brother James on NAA and sisters Margaret & Merran (1932 trove) for comparison with SM. I don’t know what happened to other brother John Francis who like George be missing in action. Love to know if they had Jim’s toes.
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JS: Interesting faces, Merran’s parents lived in Partridge St, Glenelg. A few years later and they may have bumped into the get-rich-quick couple J & P?
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Clive #
Think you’ll find that old Doug Phillip’s widow Dora was living at West Stirling in the hills before she passed in 1964. Jo & Prosper Thomson had lived in West Stirling not long after returning from hols on The Continent in ’61 and remained at least until ’68 when Kate got married and moved next door but one to the Freemans in Bath St. Glenelg Sth. What were you saying?
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