Dude47, Jo, John Sanders, Facts and Freemasons
Reading through the Cipher Mysteries site can be entertaining, on the one hand we have the earnest postings of individuals who have a legitimate interest in the Webb case; ie Jo and dude47 amongst many others and on the other hand we have John Sanders, a prolific poster to the site (last count was 35,098 comments over the last nine months) but who is yet to prove his intentions other than by being a japester and gross dissembler of known facts. Pity the newcomer who takes his words seriously.
For instance –
“Jo: the collection of suitcase tools were pinned and laid out for press photos on an Adelaide Railway Station cafeteria menu and not what your link might otherwise suggest ie. a black Freemason folder.”
Then this from dude47
“I’ve got no problem with an individual exploring a particular proposition which clearly has at the very least enough crumbs to warrant following the trail.
Here’s some of the reasons #Jo’s research is worthwhile,
FACT. PT was doing business with a Melbourne based black market car racketeer. He admitted so in open court before a magistrate* See Daphne Page case.
FACT. Carl had some connection to PT. He was in possession of the phone number X3239 which was the number of PTs abode and PT used for his small adds.
FACT. Roy, Carl’s brother closest in age married the daughter of a gangster connected to all things crooked including car rackets and illegal gambling dens. The witness to Roys wedding was also a gangster. Ergo Carl had connections to the underworld through his brother.
FACT. No-one has been able to establish a legitimate reason for Carl being in Adelaide on the day he died. None of his friends, family, spouse, colleagues appear to have known he was in Adelaide.
FACT. TWO yes TWO prominent baccarat players with nothing to gain identified Carl Webb as a nitkeeper from Melbourne who disappeared without explanation. *CARL came from Melbourne.
FACT Carl’s wife said he was a violent man and gambler known to local cops as specified in a sworn affidavit.”
What’s most disappointing is that the huge mass of consistent tripe being promoted by John Sanders remains unchallenged by the site’s moderator, Nick Pelling, who, ironically, is a man so intent on maintaining his own reputation as a serious and well-respected researcher he forbids anyone to use his nickname* in their comments – yet will allow this through from Kawa:
“Nicholas, you can suspect me of ruining your site with troll-antics all you like. The fact is that the shite pouring out of that other [generic swear word]’s mouth is what drives people Away. He’s a Christing puzzling and pissing mad fucker.
I suspect Kawa is referring to John Sanders, Dome’s* pet poodle.
I believe the code may be an aide mémoire for a Freemasons’ charge (perhaps for a lodge that is no longer around) or passage of text associated with progressing in the Craft. I picked this idea up from a couple of others, including NP. Charlie’s father was a Mason; Joe Gavey’s grandson was a lodge Master. Masonry was at its height in the post war period; it was a popular way of forming social networks, with an emphasis on moral principles & philanthropy. I would love to get access to historical member index cards! My reading of the story is one of Charlie oscillating between gambling & being on the edge of criminal networks vs trying to be a more regular or even righteous person – as suggested by the physical culture movement & Freemasonry. My own dilemmas are more simple – trying to be productive in my life & work vs getting absorbed in historical neighbourhood mysteries* & reading yet another of JS’ off beat contributions! *(Much of my daily life is rooted in the neighbourhoods where CW lived & worked in the 1940s! Perhaps I need a holiday!)
I think at some stage someone suggested that the letters could have been a prompt for question/Answer type challenges – perhaps to progress through some mason ritual (I think they proposed the first two lines were questions and the last 2 lines were answers and the MLIAO was a mistake).
In fact I think there was a big ol’ discussion about freemasonry (at the time specific to Adelaide, I think) – as you’ve noticed the discussion on most SM sites sways toward the same topics around the same time, so there’s as likely record of a discussion here about it as there is anywhere else.
I give him that, Jo, Sanders is a funny fellow at times, but I can do without his deliberate misinformation. Years ago I suggested he get his own blog … put himself up for appraisal … comment.
Pet poodle! The Dude’s unregistered canine description of the rogue colonel was pretty apt!
@ Lurker – now there is a name, searching for a member index card could be productive – it would confirm that CW was a sometime member & possibly indicate which lodges he had been involved with.
I have to admit that giving JS the occasional bitch slap is a guilty pleasure but also a community service. His crap often goes unchallenged and I’m a a believer that assholes thrive when good people do nothing.
But thanks for the vote of confidence PB. I dont mind it over at Domes but here seems to be the DOMEain of those with the fluid intelligence to speculate and join dots.
For example I dont mind Feltus’s book. I was excited to get a copy as soon as it was published. I have to say its the bible when it comes to facts but I was disappointed at the lack of imagination.
80 years down the track we have to accept that “direct proof” as demanded in a recent JS challenge to #Jo is near on impossible. We only have so many clues at our disposal and we have to join the dots ourselves.
My entire reasoning for my well known suspicions re SM are based on one question. Why no-one knew he was in Adelaide Surely even the most solitary individual has at least one person they would advise that they were making an interstate trip especially in those days. A boss , a landlord, girlfriend, boyfriend, colleague. And thats why I believe he was up to something. Was it crime or a suicide mission. F…d if I know
I think SM had a crush on Jessica and went to make a friendly visit but discovered Prosper was living with her. But I think Prosper and Jessica had other reasons to eliminate SM.
Perhaps Carl was torn between the family Mason connection and his own criminal links, was this the reason why he was angry at times? Looking at membership cards of Masons would be most interesting, somehow I don’t think they will be get-at-able. The tools, arranged on a leather background, which had Masonic symbols, surely could not have been just a coincidence-a message somewhere?
When I asked GF he said not to make too much of it … it just happened that one of the detectives was a mason. But, you know, those folks didn’t splash around their symbol without reason, and that pic went everywhere.
GF holds his cards pretty close to his chest. I think there’s something in it.
Well, if you believe what appeared to be an unbelievably sloppy police operation was in fact a manipulation in order to shield a person and or an event from official scrutiny – like an inquest – then they were successful. The Masonic folder would have been as good as a nudge nudge wink wink to those who needed to know if the case was in ‘proper’ hands and there was no need for them to be overly concerned.
And the tools, as shown, arranged in a certain symbolic order perhaps? What happened to the electrician’s screwdriver?
@ Clive – the tie has been included, so perhaps the police were leaving hints that SM may have Masonic connections without explicitly saying so, perhaps hoping someone would recognise him?
So, despite Cowan’s expertise, he was unable/unwilling(?) to find out exactly what the Black substance was he found on the stenciling brush. If he couldn’t find what the substance was-did he ask anyone else to look at it?
Sooo… from torn slip and book of poem sans Taman shud as a means of two strangers recognition system to secret hand shakes ala Freemasons and members looking after their own?? Blaaaahttt – that’s a ceremonial goat bleating!
Perhaps that tattered letter folder was actually in the suitcase found (just never listed as one of the contents / nothing new here, items added or excluded depending on those describing and when) used out of convenience for pinning and staging contents for the photograph. In the strictest sense, falls under the description of the photo taken of selected suitcase contents.
You want to put that into English, mate, because I’m buggered if I know what you’re talking about.
John Sanders – 5266 comments on Cipher Mysteries
Pete Bowes – 1354 comments on Cipher Mysteries
Figures correct as of just now.