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Who killed Carl Webb?

Suicide you say?

What was Carl Webb up to in the last year of his life that determined he should be found dead on an Adelaide beach and stripped of all his identity?

What was Carl Webb up to on the last night of his life?

Where was he that night when he ate the vegetable pasty?

Is a man contemplating suicide likely to want a snack only hours before taking his life?

Would it be unusual for a man not contemplating suicide to have a late evening appetite?

Who was Carl Webb with on the night he died?

Why do we believe PC Moss couldn’t find the TS slip in Webb’s fob pocket?

Is it because we think it was too small for him to feel with his fingers?

Why do we believe PC Moss couldn’t find a box of matches in any of Webb’s pockets when he found the much smaller tickets in his ticket-pocket?

Why do we believe nobody could source the origin of the two words Tamam Shud for six months when the Rubaiyat was universally well-read and had been available in libraries and bookshops for years?

Would the absence of the matches have changed the direction of the investigation?

Would the absence of the TS slip have changed the direction of the investigation?

Was the presence of these two items enough to determine the direction of the investigation?

Who killed Carl Webb?

Manipulate this reconstructed image yourself to what you think is the size of a pocket edition of Fitzgerald’s Rubaiyat ..

If you do believe the investigation was manipulated, could it have been done without the co-operation of police?

22 Comments Post a comment
  1. Jo #

    PB – I’m inclined to believe it was suicide but think it would be very worthwhile searching through police gazettes for Melbourne 1944-6 (plus photo supplement) and WA 1946-8 for baccarat, gambling & car mentions.

    Re an earlier post – it may be worth another chat with Stuart re who is who in the family photo. Norman Webb & Leo Keane’s WWII service records are both now available as digital copies via the NAA & both have photos that could be older versions of the lad at the front of the group – with Leo for an earlier date & Norman for a later one.

    January 21, 2023
    • Stuart is no longer responding …

      January 21, 2023
      • Jo #

        He’s probably had enough of all this! Sensible man! Or maybe there is impending news from SAPOL…

        January 21, 2023
  2. Clive #

    The absence of matches would have raised the question of how the SM managed to have been smoking a cigarette? Which would have raised the certainty that another individual must have lit the cigarette. As for the delay in finding the meaning of ‘Tamam Shud”, surely a quick telephone call to Adelaide University would have answered this query. It seems even more strange it took six months to establish the meaning, when the ‘Rubaiyat” was supposed to have been very popular in the 1940’s.

    January 21, 2023
  3. Jo, some may spend the better part of their lifetime looking for a 1930 penny or a West Australian inverted swan stamp … these people I can understand, others watch tennis.

    January 21, 2023
  4. To get an idea of the actual size of the words “Tamam Shud”, lay down a 20 cent AU coin on a piece of paper and write a capital “T” before the left side of the coin and a small “d” after the coin on the right.

    January 21, 2023
    • How big do you think it is in relationship to any one of the two tickets, bigger or smaller?

      January 21, 2023
  5. The Tamam Shud fits into a rectangle 38mm x 5mm and the usual VR cardboard type ticket was 55mm x 30mm (some were a bit longer possibly 60mm) so you could fit 6 Tamam Shuds side by side across a train or tram ticket and have 15-20mm left uncovered at the end of the ticket. The whole ROK is 145mm x 115mm.

    January 21, 2023
  6. My Best Guess would be Prosper killed SM. Jessica went along with the plan. But I have no clue for the motive. I would need to know why he Lost his factory Job and what he was doing or where he was working. I believe Prosper lit SMs cigarette at glenelg 90 by the kitchen. Did Prosper and Jess make beer? Can You disguise phenobarbital in beer? Did they have a syringe ready in case SM didnt want the beer? Why would SM want to commit suicide yet not drink a beer?

    January 21, 2023
    • That’s a tough one Slides, and if it was PT it would be unlikely he’d leave the body so close to home, he was never short of transport.

      January 21, 2023
  7. thedude747 #

    The late afternoon pasty is one of the factors going against the suicide theory. I don’t have any hard research to reference (perhaps someone else has? ) but it’s my understanding that it would be quite rare for a person eating a solid meal within a few hours of taking own life.

    January 22, 2023
    • Dwyer .. ‘I would say that the food had been in the stomach for up to 3 to 4 hours before death. It is difficult to give an opinion on that, because if a person is in a state of anxiety, that digestion may be suspended.’
      Hicks .. ‘I accept the evidence that the man probably died at 2am at the earliest.’

      January 22, 2023
  8. Clive #

    I just can’t picture (if this is the correct word!) Prosper killing SM. He had history with the cops, but murder? If anything I think it would have been Jessie, who was responsible for his demise. She was an accomplished liar and, I’m sure quite adept at portraying the innocent in this case.

    January 22, 2023
    • Well maybe if Prosper was drunk and in a Bad mood that day and he wasnt thinking all that clearly and good looking Charlie Webb showed up at your door to talk to your newlywed wife well maybe youd loose it and not even think about where to place the body. But I have a suspicion that Prosper and Jess had it planned. Can’t wait to hear what Charles was doing around the time he went to visit Glenelg. Or if Dorothy had anything to do with Prosper and Jess…

      January 22, 2023
  9. Clive, all we’ve got on where PT’s head was after Webb was found was his ad on the 18th of December ….. ‘CITY or suburbs. Tudor gold watch. Nearly new; good reward. Thomson 90A Moseley St. Glenelg. X3239.’ Webb wasn’t found wearing a watch and if this expensive Tudor was his that makes PT a pretty cold-blooded animal … I found this online, dated 2017 ….. ‘Tudor watches can still very much hold their own at auction, selling for less than a $1,000 all the way up to $30,000-$40,000 for particularly significant models.’

    January 22, 2023
  10. dude47 #

    Yeah the Tudor watch add is very interesting. Also interesting is that if the time of death was “2am at the earliest” then he’s eating a pasty at 10pm at the earliest. Bakery do not stay open until 10pm and I doubt he bought a pasty at 5pm then shleped it around for 5 hours before eating it. Why is this an issue? I guess it says he had to have been at somebody’s house iMHO.

    Re Prosper being a killer Ive always felt that IF PT was responsible that it was a situation that escalated un expectedly and he has panicked either acting in self defence or self preservation. I DONT see PT as the pre meditated murdering type..

    January 22, 2023
    • King William St and Glenelg Beach had “pie carts” till early a.m. most nights. I can’t find much of use on Tudor watches but would like to know if the mech number or case number was stamped on the back (outside)????

      January 23, 2023
  11. Prosper quit the army in 43 on medical grounds, the man was almost consumptive. Webb on the other hand was a very chunky unit according to Lawson …. PT wouldn’t have stood a chance if it came to blows …. Someone else came to the party on the night of 30 November, someone strong enough to carry a dead Webb to the steps, someone who didn’t care how close to 93a he left him.

    January 22, 2023
  12. Clive #

    Yeah, I can see your point about the Tudor gold watch and Charles Webb being the possible owner. If the watch did belong to Charles and, it had certain info. engraved on the rear of the watch, perhaps Prosper was desperate to find the watch before anyone handed it over to the police. Interesting that Prosper was covering both the City & suburbs, not specifying his city garage area or Glenelg.

    January 23, 2023
  13. David Morgan #

    The image you have shown is your own reconstruction. You should make that clear as these images get spread as facts. A lot of videos made about the Isdal Woman show a suitcase picture in colour that was put together for some visual effect. But it is often cited as hers.

    I was intrigued to know how he ripped the rectangle. Seeing it in isolation like your reconstruction you would need an implement or to fold the page. But he did it ripping in from the edge and then making a rectangle. Not an easy thing to achieve sat on a beach under the influence of drugs. I thought perhaps he had used the drawer in a matchbox to size the rectangle or even as a press to push it out by making the edge damp with seawater.

    February 3, 2023

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