The Criminal Connection: Roy Webb’s father-in-law was an associate of one of Australia’s most notorious criminals.
“I reckon the burrowers over at Domes who have become obsessed with Doff and her second husband could learn more about Carl if they devoted similar effort to see what Roy was up to in the days when he and Carl were in their 20s.” Dude47
“Remember PT’s chilling warning to Daphne Page who threatens to go to the police about his Melbourne business partner ” he’s not the kind of person you go to the police about” Dude47
“Two prominent Melbourne baccarat players who desire to remain anonymous, believe they knew the unknown man in the “Somerton beach body mystery.They saw the man’s picture in a Melbourne newspaper and said they thought they recognised him as a “nitkeeper” who worked at a Lonsdale street baccarat school about four years ago (1944/45) They could not recall his name.They said the man talked to few people. He was employed at the baccarat school for about 10 weeks, then left without saying why or where he was going.” Nick (The Dome) Pelling
“Roy Webb’s wife’s father, Joe Gavey, was a gangster, as was one of the witnesses at their wedding, Charles Alsop. There are lots of references in Trove to their activities.” Talulla
“Gavey is in a Chinese restaurant on a Saturday evening in Bourke Street. A digger provokes him by dropping a “yes” (to conscription) badge on the floor. Gavey tells his female companion to “put her heel on it”. Some hot soup is hurled, a gun is produced, somehow the female companion takes the rap. Just your average night out in Melbourne in 1917.” Talulla
“Roys father in law, Joe Gavey, was a gangster and a witness at his wedding.” Dude47.
That’s a collection of recent comments that appear to be of the same theme, so if we were to suspect Charlie of having an unfortunate involvement with criminals and they may have been responsible for his death, perhaps some unanswered questions might be examined under a brighter light.
Like who was Prosper’s Melbourne business partner?
And what do we know about Joe Gavey and Charles Alsop?
I don’t know about any of the Somerton Beach inferences but here are Joe Gavey and Charles Alsop (with a quick Squizzy Taylor):
Joe, book maker’s clerk, being shot at by his wife at his lawyer’s office.
A bank robbery
Joe Gavey; Leslie “Squizzy” Taylor and Charles Alsop
“Well know characters” Joe Gavey and Charles Alsop targeted in a police “Cleaning up Movement”
Joe lived to the age of 80 (1951)
Roy’s name never appears in conjunction with any of their activities; which are mainly in the 19 teens and 20s; although both Joe and Charles Alsop were at Roy and Ruby’s wedding (Charles Alsop is one of the witnesses I don’t know where I got Ed from…). Roy’s wife, Ruby was a nurse
Joe Gavey’s address in Greville Street was a stone’s throw from Charlie’s Red Point Tool Company workplace although again no references to Charlie or Red Point Tool Co in conjunction with Joe who would have been in his 70s when Red Point was established.
Many thanks Tallula, sterling stuff.
Thats dynamite stuff Talullah.
So Roy’s good mate Aslop who was best man at his wedding and his father in law Joe were both bona fide hard core wise guys. Pistols being drawn in public ,card game hold ups and even connected to none other than Squizzy Taylor. They sound like the kind of guys you don’t go to the police about.
Thought was going through my mind, that Carl knew Jessie before she moved to Adelaide. Carl finds out her address, Prosper concerned that Carl may be an ‘elephant in the room’ scenario. Prosper contacts his well known Melbourne ‘business’ associate to warn off Carl. The ‘business’ associate ends up poisoning Carl, just as a warning, but the dose proves fatal. Prosper tells Jessie, Carl returned to Melbourne, end of story. Except 7 months later, Jessie walks into Lawson’s office to look at the bust and…..
Well we know that Gaveys ex wife Annie went through great lengths by changing her name and moving away leaving her two children with the stepmother Clara. Could CW have changed his name running away fom the mob? It is mentioned somewhere on the trove that Clara Gavey would flip houses buying property and renting it out. I am also under the suspicion that Ruby’s daughter Brenda might have been CW’s daughter. note that Ruby as Jessie were both nurses.
Well I know one commenter has been spruiking a mob connection for years. I can’t see any way that Roy could have a best mate and a father in-law both in the mob and be completely disassociated himself. He lives minutes from where Carl works and is his closest brother in age.
Also you’ve got Roy listing his occupation as “driver” which seems a pretty broad and non descriptive . Joe Garvey who identifies as a “clerk” when arrested which clearly he was not.
em# what leads you to suspect Brenda being CW’s daughter?
Angela and Pat on Ciphermysteries found information on Brenda. She seems to have had a difficult life. Her mother Ruby died of cancer when she was quite young and she went to live with another family interstate. On Brenda’s 1985 death certificate her father is listed as Roy Webb which obviously couldn’t be the case as she was born a few years after his death. Perhaps she had grown up believing that Roy was her father. There is no information on who her real father was
Ruby, Jessie and Dorothy were all working in the health sector – could Ruby have known Dorothy? Could Dorothy or Ruby have supplied Carl with the phenobarbital.
Ruby’s daughter Brenda was born in 1946 after Roy was deployed and his untimely death. Ruby was first notified of his death in 1945 . in that time given the closeness between Roy and Carl one can assume that he might have been some sort of comfort to her. Ther is also epigenetics to take into consideration as Brenda took her own life after a very sad life and the death of almost everyone, she was close to.
#em Very interesting. One thing stands out for me and that’s at least as far as we know there is a lack of any apparent evidence that Carl disappearance was reported or followed up on. Its been my position that no-one knew Carl was in Adelaide. AND that’s why no-one near and dear linked Carl with the body found in Adelaide.
I get as sense of a family rift for reasons unknown (apart from the fact that he was clearly a bit of a nasty guy if Doff’s divorce decree is accurate. But if you are correct that could be a source of a family rift.
Squizzy Taylor doesn’t look like the type of man you would be happy to deal with, either in business or public.